Posted on 12/06/2008 9:43:49 PM PST by pissant
The continuing efforts of a fringe group of conservatives to deny Obama his victory and to lay the basis for the claim that he is not a legitimate president is embarrassing and destructive. The fact that these efforts are being led by Alan Keyes, an unhinged demagogue on the political fringe who lost a senate election to the then unknown Obama by 42 points should be a warning in itself.
This tempest over whether Obama, the child of an American citizen, was born on American soil is tantamount to the Democrats' seditious claim that Bush "stole" the election in Florida and hence was not the legitimate president. This delusion helped to create the Democrats' Bush derangement syndrome and encouraged Democratic leaders to lie about the origins of the Iraq War, and regard it as illegitimate as Bush himself. It became "Bush's War" rather than an American War with destructive consequences for our troops and our cause.
The Birth Certificate zealots are essentially arguing that 64 million voters should be disenfranchised because of a contested technicality as to whether Obama was born on U.S. soil. (McCain narrowly escaped the problem by being born in the Panama Canal zone, which is no longer American.)
What difference does it make to the future of this country whether Obama was born on US soil? Advocates of this destructive campaign will argue that the Constitutional principle regarding the qualifications for President trumps all others. But how viable will our Constitution be if 5 Supreme Court justices should decide to void 64 million ballots?
Conservatives are supposed to respect the organic nature of human societies. Ours has been riven by profound disagreements that have been deepening over many years. We are divided not only about political facts and social values, but also about what the Constitution itself means. The crusaders on this issue choose to ignore these problems and are proposing to deny the will of 64 million voters by appealing to 5 Supreme Court Justices (since no one is delusional enough to think that the 4 liberal justices are going to take the presidency away from Obama). What kind of conservatism is this?
It is not conservatism; it is sore loserism and quite radical in its intent. Respect for election results is one of the most durable bulwarks of our unity as a nation. Conservatives need to accept the fact that we lost the election, and get over it; and get on with the important business of reviving our country's economy and defending its citizens, and -- by the way -- its Constitution.
Presidents would refuse to sign legislation they themselves determined was unconstitutional, a President did not defer to the Supreme Court. For one example og many, President Grover Cleveland (D-NY) refused to sign a farm drought relief bill because there was no authorization for such federal spending in the Constitution.
Another sterling example was President Andrew Jackson -- Jackson refused to abide Supreme Court rulings and legislation he felt were unconstitutional, in the case of the national bank and in regards the Indians.
No President should sign a bill, or carry out an act that he (or she) holds to be unconstitutional. To do so is to void their oath, to perjure, and in that act of voiding the oath they then become themselves a usurper. No longer holding the office according to that oath, they then forward hold it by force, by the fear of the Federal establishment.
The Supreme Court is not the sole nor final arbitrator of constitutionality -- in the end it falls to each American, to the extent and ability that our position gives to us.
That is why the charter leads "We, the People".
Donofrio has a wealth of correct and corrected info at his site. It should be required reading for all here. He makes it so clear that accd. to factcheck. org. Obama is an admitted citizen of the UK and US, Or not eligible, not a natural born citizen at all.
What difference? If Obama was not born on US soil that means he is guilty of forgery and fraud and the associated coverup of the Kenyan birth. Nixon was impeached for a lessor crime.
It almost sounds like Horowitz is conceding the fact that Obama was not born in Hawaii?
Ping me or freep mail me when they say something of value and don’t Malkinite this issue.
Pastor Manning was on plains radio fri 12/5. He said that if there is a full hearing on this, Obuma’s image will be destroyed. The Af/Am community will desert him. The Af/Am community is not like it was in the 60’s that there will not be riots. That Af/Am will reap lasting shame over this man. Obama will not stand long his lies will find him out.
There has been so much discussion about Natural Born Citizen and what the real definition is that perhaps it is something that does need to be clarified. I suppose there are arguments on both sides.
I agree with you. Mr. Horowitz says that we need to respect the results of an election (we absolutely do) but seems untroubled by the possibility that a vital portion of the Constitution is being violated!
With jet travel and dramatically increased immigration, issues such as these are here to stay. John McCain, Barack Obama, and a minor candidate who I’ve read was only a naturalized citizen all faced questions about whether they met the Constitution’s “natural-born citizen” requirement in this election.
SCOTUS must do the right thing on this, or the politicians will cook up new definitions in order to allow candidacies of those whom they view as good bets (Arnold) in the next election. This definition will evolve according to who dominates Congress and which candidates the dominant party plans to run.
I have also read in the past about women from the Middle East who fly to the Michigan area just before they are about to give birth, producing an American citizen on the taxpayers’ dime and then flying home. Assuming that this is accurate, I would not want these children, who presumably became citizens through gamesmanship, to be able to run for the presidency. What about the children of illegal aliens?
I am not a Constitutional expert and so do not know whether anchor babies, etc., would meet Constitutional requirements. I suspect that they would not. However, it would not surprise me if they were allowed to run even though they did not meet those requirements because no one had the guts to stop them. (We seem to be suffering from this attitude to some extent now. After all, at least one secretary of state allowed a naturalized citizen on the ballot!!!!)
This definition must be clarified and a system set in place to verify that all candidates meet the standards when they register to run for president.
I have enormous respect for the office of the president and for our electoral process. It would be immensely foolish and beyond outrageous for anyone to push these lawsuits simply to try to delegitimize our president-elect. I have never said that any president was not my president, and I will not say so about Barack Obama.
However, IF these lawsuits raise legitimate questions about Obama’s eligibility, they must be heard by SCOTUS NOW. If not, I absolutely hope that “natural-born citizen” is defined ASAP in another context by the Supreme Court.
No he wasn't. But Sick Willie was.
I believe Pastor Manning is correct. I have said before that those who would choose to riot would be those who riot about most anything. We have seen it before in some major cities. Rioting over the results of a football game for example. Or when Law Enforcement (both black & white) arrest someone for a crime there may be riots.
Our country can handle riots, but we certainly cannot handle having our Constitution trashed!
If I had viewed photos of both Mr. Barack Obama senior and Mr. Frank Marshall Davis without any prior knowledge of Mr. Obama junior except his photo I'd pick Davis as the father.
I am reminded of a skit on the old Rowan and Martin show, Laugh In.
Rowan played a typical suburban family man with four children played by adult cast members made up with red hair and freckles. Never, never were the appearances of the children mentioned.
The next door neighbor was played by Martin, made up with red hair and freckles. Never, never was his appearance mentioned. Never, never any suggestion except for the actors' obvious avoidance of the obvious. We TV viewers felt like part of the skit.
Underlying each and every performance of this skit was this huge unspoken joke.
Now something like it is for real? A real not so funny joke?
I thought he got one are two of his friends to do it for him.
I do not believe the SCOTUS will order that Obama produce his sealed birth certificate. IT IS NOT NEEDED at this point. Obama is a not a “natural born” citizen due to his father not being a citizen at the time of Obama’s birth. Where he was born would be interesting to know, but even if he was born in Hawaii he is NOT a “natural born” citizen.
Everyone needs to realize that McCain is also not a “natural born” citizen due to being born in Panama. Ever wonder why McCain and the RNC did not bring up Obama’s lack of Constitutional qualifications? Because McCain is not qualified either.
You are right, and I agree.
I find it very upsetting that so many in our Government knew about the lack of Constitutional requirements of both Obama and McCain and yet allowed this to happen. I find it hard to believe that they just didn’t know! Hope I am wrong about this as it makes me ill to think so many would cover this up with our Constitution at stake.
I agree with Horowitz. I actually didn’t even realize so many conservatives were complaining about this until I started to read the endless threads on FR. I also didn’t realize that Alan Keyes was involved with this...that seems kind of bizarre? I remember several years ago when I was still in college and I actually thought Alan Keyes was the greatest - a great thinker with good ideas...an idealist like me. Now, Alan Keyes and issues such as this seem so far out and on the fringe...so downright bizarre that I shake my head at it...aren’t there more important issues to discuss? In fact, I know there is. I guess the process of aging and being completely alone and on my own has really changed me; I realized that you really have to learn to pick your battles in life. This isn’t one of them!
Last time I got a passport, I needed a BC.
Come on Grampa...you’re better than this.
But it's so much simpler. The Florida thing involved actions by several different officials and several courts. The "natural born citizen", at least the "Born on US soil" part of it, is simple to resolve. Release a copy of the original Certificate of Live Birth (Not the Certification) to any or all of the courts involved, and the issue is over, and most of us shut up. Assuming of course that the Certificate shows that he was indeed born in a hospital in Honolulu, as claimed.
Otherwise, it's "Fight's On".
Whatever you said???
Fact is the only conservative who has broached this issue is Thomas Lifson.
None of the Townhall folks, NRO folks, not to mention the aforementioned talk show hosts and commentators have touched it.
As I have said, there has got to be a reason.
And, by some of the responses last night and this morning, I suspect you know what it is.
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