Posted on 12/06/2008 9:43:49 PM PST by pissant
The continuing efforts of a fringe group of conservatives to deny Obama his victory and to lay the basis for the claim that he is not a legitimate president is embarrassing and destructive. The fact that these efforts are being led by Alan Keyes, an unhinged demagogue on the political fringe who lost a senate election to the then unknown Obama by 42 points should be a warning in itself.
This tempest over whether Obama, the child of an American citizen, was born on American soil is tantamount to the Democrats' seditious claim that Bush "stole" the election in Florida and hence was not the legitimate president. This delusion helped to create the Democrats' Bush derangement syndrome and encouraged Democratic leaders to lie about the origins of the Iraq War, and regard it as illegitimate as Bush himself. It became "Bush's War" rather than an American War with destructive consequences for our troops and our cause.
The Birth Certificate zealots are essentially arguing that 64 million voters should be disenfranchised because of a contested technicality as to whether Obama was born on U.S. soil. (McCain narrowly escaped the problem by being born in the Panama Canal zone, which is no longer American.)
What difference does it make to the future of this country whether Obama was born on US soil? Advocates of this destructive campaign will argue that the Constitutional principle regarding the qualifications for President trumps all others. But how viable will our Constitution be if 5 Supreme Court justices should decide to void 64 million ballots?
Conservatives are supposed to respect the organic nature of human societies. Ours has been riven by profound disagreements that have been deepening over many years. We are divided not only about political facts and social values, but also about what the Constitution itself means. The crusaders on this issue choose to ignore these problems and are proposing to deny the will of 64 million voters by appealing to 5 Supreme Court Justices (since no one is delusional enough to think that the 4 liberal justices are going to take the presidency away from Obama). What kind of conservatism is this?
It is not conservatism; it is sore loserism and quite radical in its intent. Respect for election results is one of the most durable bulwarks of our unity as a nation. Conservatives need to accept the fact that we lost the election, and get over it; and get on with the important business of reviving our country's economy and defending its citizens, and -- by the way -- its Constitution.
Nope. The Constitution requires POTUS candidates to meet certain criteria. It is his burden to demonstrate he meets that criteria.
Well I am open for what you think the reason Rush is u
mute on this issue.
And don’t say becuase he thinks nothing will cpme of it or there’s nothing there.
He should be discussing the issue like he does everything else.
I like David Horowitz.
No one does a better job of chasing the left around in our nations colleges but he has not done his homework on this one and he should just shut up.
There is that small issue of the constitution. I mean if the constitution says a president must be 35 years of age we cannot let a 15 year old run for the President. A 15 year old candidate could claim in a squeaky voice that you have no positive legal proof he isn’t in fact 35. The burden of proof is on you, and by the way all his documentation is sealed, and you cannot talk to his friends, school, or family.
Have fun proving it in court!
Horowitz is an idiot if he thinks the Constitution should be overruled by the majority vote in the election. It just doesn't work that way.
Yeah, we don’t really need a constitution do we....
I like him too. Same with Malkin. But they are pissing me off with this “truther” BS.
This capitulation by the MSCM - Mainstream Conservative Media is surprizing and difficult to understand. reminds me of what transpired with certain Conservatives on the Illegal Amnesty and several other issues....there is something stinking up the place when our friends seem to be throwing the Constitution under the bus and are calling their supporters ‘Truthers’!
Not much.
In order for this to be successful requires not on, but several leaps of faith. The case is doomed to failure.
I see people who never heard of "standing" to bring a case are now internet experts. The facts are:
None of these Plaintiff's have standing to bring the case.
Even if they have standing, they have demonstrated no evidence to support their claim. (and yes I know what Obama's step grandmother allegedly said - but that is not evidence)> Many here simply are unaware or refuse to understand what it takes for evidence to be admitted in court.
All of these cases, even if the Supreme Court let them go forward, would not survive the first Motion For Summary Disposition at the trial court level.
Finally, as difficult as this is for many to understand, the burden of proof to show Obama is not a citizen, is on Donofrio and Berg and Keyes. Obama, has to prove nothing until such time as the Plaintiff's show evidence, not conjecture and speculation, that Obama is ineligible.
The thing that troubles me is that so many people who complain about the Left running to court to have a judge erase a loss (See Al Gore in 2000) have no problem with the exact same tactic when they are the losers.
These cases are going nowhere, and it not because of some vast conspiracy.
Note: I have to leave for the est of the day. If you respond, I will not be able to reply to you until tonight.
The two basic opposing arguments present us with the following question:
Should the principle of majority rule supercede the principle which holds the United States Constitution to be the ultimate legal authority?
Problem is we have reams of backup just like FReepers always do,you cannot ignore facts.
Just because the major league talkers have dropped the ball doesn't mean that we will!
Truth matters!
Perhaps too many of them have links to the disintegrating GOP which is becoming a blue dog democratic party in place of a conservative one. I have heard several reasons.
1.The people demanding the BC are an embarrassment so they try to shut it down.
2. They are afraid of the ‘Fairness Doctrine’ and are keeping their heads down. Fox News syndrome of a sort.
3. They are afraid of the consequences of Obama being disqualified.
The rats in Congress sucked him(McCain) into letting congress actually pass a law that it didn't matter where he(McCain) was born. He could still be potus.(he was legal anyway) Now why in hell would they ever do such a thing unless they were preparing a precedent for their guy.
This whole thing wreaks.
It's a little of both.
If Obama were born outside of the US, and he knows it, then his entire campaign and especially his rapid use of his mythical "Office of the President-Elect" represent a coup attempt unprecedented in its audacity (to coin a phrase).
However, the issues of standing and basis are important - even more so when dealing with someting as important as the choice of 68 million voters.
We've never had a mechanism to deal with the underlying issue. And FReepers who keep saying "we've never needed one" are missing the point.
ESPECIALLY because of Obama's racial/ethnic/internationalist angle (this was, no doubt, a big plus for his 68 million supporters), the invention of a new, post hoc requirement that he provide some type of documentation that has NEVER been required of ANY other serious candidate is a problem.
Once you allow private citizen standing to sue the President, or President-elect, based on internet research and unsworn allegations on nutbar websites, you create a monster.
“Look, with all due respect, that’s just nonsense.”
No it isn’t. Rush as spent his entire career describing Evil and yet he has trouble mouthing the word. So does Hannity. The reason is that to do so would put them too far to the right thus making thm more easily attacked. Some listener (I suspect it is the same guy) used to call Hannity and Rush, and, in a deliberate, quiet voice ask simply: “What do they (Dems) do?” (the answer is they lie) Then he would say: “And WHO lies?” (emphasis his). Humina humina humina...... it was always pretty funny.
Haven’t heard the guy in a few years.
Allot of legal BS. Just show us the birth certificate so that we can see whether FRAUD has been committed. No need for legal mumbo jumbo.
Norge you may need a deeper education in the foundation of this issue...go to the postings @ the HHN site, the postings have a good roundup of the arguments.
64 million voters say so
Forget That Pesky Constitution
Organic nature of human societies trumps Constitution. "What difference does it make?" asks Horowitz, et al.
No one is disputing that the Democrats won! Obama’s eligibility is the question and that has been made plain on every thread about this question.
Many of us are aware the chances of Joe Biden, or Nancy Pelosi being President are low.
Guess he didn't want to be viewed as a kook.
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