Posted on 12/06/2008 9:43:49 PM PST by pissant
The continuing efforts of a fringe group of conservatives to deny Obama his victory and to lay the basis for the claim that he is not a legitimate president is embarrassing and destructive. The fact that these efforts are being led by Alan Keyes, an unhinged demagogue on the political fringe who lost a senate election to the then unknown Obama by 42 points should be a warning in itself.
This tempest over whether Obama, the child of an American citizen, was born on American soil is tantamount to the Democrats' seditious claim that Bush "stole" the election in Florida and hence was not the legitimate president. This delusion helped to create the Democrats' Bush derangement syndrome and encouraged Democratic leaders to lie about the origins of the Iraq War, and regard it as illegitimate as Bush himself. It became "Bush's War" rather than an American War with destructive consequences for our troops and our cause.
The Birth Certificate zealots are essentially arguing that 64 million voters should be disenfranchised because of a contested technicality as to whether Obama was born on U.S. soil. (McCain narrowly escaped the problem by being born in the Panama Canal zone, which is no longer American.)
What difference does it make to the future of this country whether Obama was born on US soil? Advocates of this destructive campaign will argue that the Constitutional principle regarding the qualifications for President trumps all others. But how viable will our Constitution be if 5 Supreme Court justices should decide to void 64 million ballots?
Conservatives are supposed to respect the organic nature of human societies. Ours has been riven by profound disagreements that have been deepening over many years. We are divided not only about political facts and social values, but also about what the Constitution itself means. The crusaders on this issue choose to ignore these problems and are proposing to deny the will of 64 million voters by appealing to 5 Supreme Court Justices (since no one is delusional enough to think that the 4 liberal justices are going to take the presidency away from Obama). What kind of conservatism is this?
It is not conservatism; it is sore loserism and quite radical in its intent. Respect for election results is one of the most durable bulwarks of our unity as a nation. Conservatives need to accept the fact that we lost the election, and get over it; and get on with the important business of reviving our country's economy and defending its citizens, and -- by the way -- its Constitution.
I just posted on another thread on an Elector's essay on why he will vote for Obama. I asked if anybody remembered the 2008 story of one "Clark Rockefeller."
"Rockefeller" was propelled into the news when he kidnapped his daughter during a custody fight with his ex-wife. It turned out that "Rockefeller" was really a German who came to the United States in the early 1980s, disappeared, and then reemerged with new identities as a con artist.
The elector was arguing that the United States has been treating Obama as if he were a citizen for all his life, so he has become a de facto citizen in their eyes. He likened it to a person who had a right-of-way across another's property for years, and the years of undisputed access was a de facto right of access. The analogy is that the undisputed treatment of Obama's status became actual acceptance of Obama's status by non-action.
So I asked, what about "Clark Rockefeller?" Does the same logic apply to him?
-PJ
-PJ
You call defending the strict wording of the Constitution, and demanding that our future President provide proof of the most basic qualification to hold that office, "hysteria"?
When exactly are conservatives supposed to get angry, or "hysterical", as you put it? When we find out that Obama truly is an illegal alien - AFTER he's sworn in?
Sometimes I wish I could have! What I said was there was plenty of time for this issue to be "answered"....I heard the constant asking...it's like the "yes that's a nasty abcess on your forehead but I think the bigger issue here is your severed torso.." ...the country wants this guy...that is the bigger problem...
You are right on.
As I mentioned in an earlier post, Horowitz made a weak and flawed argument.
But the question is does he fulfill the three requirments of the constitution.
It would appear that he does.
I can't help but believe that if the roles were reversed and a conservative would not release his birth certificate the LEFT and their cohorts in the MSM would be going 24/7 with rampant speculation as to WHY the birth certificate was not being released.
No way a conservative could get by with this, not a chance in hell!
All the more reason to spell out the valid reasons.
Suppose for the sake of argument that Obama really was born in Hawaii and really has an original and true birth certificate attesting to that fact which he could easily produce. If he were to do so, do you honestly think that would end the controversy?
Sure, it would for some people, but there'd be plenty of others who would try to pick it to pieces and come up with elaborate theories as to how it has been forged. I doubt that anything would completely satisfy the most extreme ODS sufferers.
So from Obama's point of view, he gains no advantage by producing the original birth certificate even if he has it. Rather, he just draws attention to the controversy and gives it credibility.
If Obama has indeed quietly spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on attorneys and other expenses related to this issue, I suspect the legal and public relations advice they gave him was to simply stonewall it. Lacking hard proof to overcome the prima facia case that Obama was born in Hawaii, his critics can do nothing. The Supreme Court will refuse to take it up, Obama will be sworn in, and the vast majority of the general public will treat the entire thing as tin-foil-hat ravings.
You expect this from a man who has no respect for this country anyway?
Then why aren't these questions easily put to rest?
Not all the country wants this guy; only that "land slide" of 51%, and how many out of that were dead, illegal, or repeat voters is an unknown confounder. Anyway, we both know and agree --- constitution trumps mob.
“Look, if he was born in Hawaii to a US citizen mother, he’s natural born. Case Closed.”
See ## 176
That is the most tortured logic I have ever heard. You’re doing nothing more than making excuses for irrational behavior.
The post I was referring to was the one in which you said, “I heard”. Unfortunately, that seems to be the sum of all the arguments against Obama
Pissant is correct about Horowitz’s analysis being error ridden. I’m stumped as too why someone who usually writes such good stuff would on this occasion write such garbage.
I reckon the situation is pretty clear and simple.
1) Obama claims he was born in the US. If he was actually born in Kenya, he should resign on the basis of his lying. It is the least the left would demand if some Republican was ever caught out in a lie of similar magnitude.
2) The Constitution is pretty clear. Any US President has to be born in the US. If Obama’s birth took place in Kenya, he can’t be President. The law does not allow it.
Two good reasons why, if the situation develops so, Obama should not be President, and reasons too important to be overlooked on any grounds really. Least of all the votes of 64 million idiots.
This is crazy: conservatives demanding the Constitution be followed, hopefully denying a friend of terrorists the Presidency of the United States!!
Now that is for sure! Like I keep saying we have much bigger problems going on here...MSM bias...the double standard you mention...high level of political ignorance...no respect for law or facts.....pick a fire and start throwing water....
Especially not a conservative! Not a Republican either. In fact, even McCain ponied-up.
Unfortunately that is more than can be said for the arguments in 0bama's favor.
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