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In the Belly Of the Beast
Personal Liberty ^ | Nov 21st, 2008 | Bob Livingston

Posted on 11/29/2008 5:47:30 AM PST by IbJensen

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To: Wonder Warthog

This is so true.

Secular conspiracies like the ones you mention that exploited and corrupted the universal longings of faith where believers embrace the tenants of a prophet have led to the worst horrors in history.

Temporal messiahs have always been the scourge of history.

Hopefully,come 1/20/09,this will not be the case.


21 posted on 11/29/2008 6:53:07 AM PST by Happy Rain ("I hope Mr. Obama will be a great president--but then again I also hope to lose 30 pounds.")
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To: IbJensen

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76S8Kndnvs0


22 posted on 11/29/2008 6:55:28 AM PST by hope (the socialist msm result is mind-numb O-bots)
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To: spatso

“Do you not think the whole tone of this thread is a little unChristian?”


If I may interject, no where does it say that Christians are perfect, or have all attained a ‘perfect’ knowledge of Christianity.

This thread seems as good a place as any to talk it out.

Maybe that’s why you’re here. To listen and respond.


23 posted on 11/29/2008 6:55:33 AM PST by UCANSEE2 (The Last Boy Scout)
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To: Texas_shutterbug
There is no doubt that religion influences one's politics, and that politics influences one's religion.

Something here is going entirely over my head. Jesus was pretty contemptuous of all politics and took great effort to avoid being political. Jesus called us to the weak, the poor, the sick and the lesser among us. I just don't get what purpose is served by trying to create a high octane mix of politics and faith.

24 posted on 11/29/2008 6:57:38 AM PST by spatso
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To: IbJensen

Thanks for posting the article.


“The Christian faith is the only religion that cannot be manipulated in favor of one worldism or universalism sometimes called the New World Order.”

Since the very first statement, which seems the premise of the whole article, is arguably wrong I find it hard to make much of the story.

Plus, the title threw me off. I thought it was a thread on Hillary.


25 posted on 11/29/2008 7:00:03 AM PST by UCANSEE2 (The Last Boy Scout)
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To: TET1968
and that by understanding the true meaning of sacrifice you may find it has nothing to do with being a martyr.

Yet, the basis of Christianity is the story of a martyr who was persecuted, and hung on a cross for our sins.

26 posted on 11/29/2008 7:06:30 AM PST by UCANSEE2 (The Last Boy Scout)
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To: UCANSEE2
This thread seems as good a place as any to talk it out.

I love politics and love to debate issues. I love Christ and feel most comfortable with myself when He is present to me. I have never experienced Christ as part of the political agenda. I wonder if we would not serve the Lord best by trying to hold the two separate?

27 posted on 11/29/2008 7:07:48 AM PST by spatso
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To: spatso
I just don't get what purpose is served by trying to create a high octane mix of politics and faith.

Ask Billy Graham.

28 posted on 11/29/2008 7:11:02 AM PST by UCANSEE2 (The Last Boy Scout)
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To: spatso
I wonder if we would not serve the Lord best by trying to hold the two separate?

It is mentioned in the Bible, one cannot serve two masters.

29 posted on 11/29/2008 7:13:03 AM PST by UCANSEE2 (The Last Boy Scout)
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To: spatso
"I just don't get what purpose is served by trying to create a high octane mix of politics and faith."

But the far religious right has created a very high octane mix, but as I see it, they refuse to see that not only have their religion influenced their politics, but their politics have definitely influenced their religion, as well. And this goes far beyond topics like homosexuality or abortion. In my opinion, the bible is pretty clear on matters like that. However, in matters of taxation, social programs, etc., I think the bible is not very clear at all. We do know what we are called to do personally, but we don't always know what government is called to do or not do.

30 posted on 11/29/2008 7:16:21 AM PST by Texas_shutterbug
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To: UCANSEE2
Funny,but accepting personal imperfection may be the greatest virtue of true Christianity.

Only God can be all merciful and all just—the Christian can only endlessly endeavor to do the same.

The evil always consider themselves perfect and the occasional altruism they may accidentally display is an imperfection and a weakness to them that needs aggressive and wicked purging.

31 posted on 11/29/2008 7:16:41 AM PST by Happy Rain ("I hope Mr. Obama will be a great president--but then again I also hope to lose 30 pounds.")
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To: IbJensen

Sorry Mr. Livingston is a rambling mess of inconsistencies and fallacies on normal social doctrine or methods. In looking the Ten Commandments it is designed as a social contract for society in the Old Testament or Torah and renewed into the Christian faith by Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount. To say the Christianity is only about individualism is wrong it is about a religious collective based on providing a moral society. However, the fight against communist/progressive socialism is a separate issue and must be looked at as a battle between methods of temporal social structure, not the religious, and what is against human nature and Christian moral structure. Communism/ progressive idealism will fail because Utopian philosophies based on progressive though is an anathema to human nature, but does not mean that other like minded zealots will try to hoist the petard of progressive societies again and again. What we are fighting is the artificial construct of socialism, not the human need or desire of social grouping or integration.


32 posted on 11/29/2008 7:22:06 AM PST by Liaison
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To: IbJensen; All

Excellent article and insight into the collectivist mind.

Obama’s “Rule” will drive many more to the bosom of Christ than the marxists will be able to stomach.

The State can never sate.

Silver linings are there if you look behind the cloud.

Bump.


33 posted on 11/29/2008 7:23:11 AM PST by ebiskit (South Park Republican ( I see Red People ))
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To: 668 - Neighbor of the Beast
You don’t need much game theory for the outcome

But it's not a game. Man plays games, God rules. Once man realizes that and starts to live that truth, then and only then will there be peace -- individual and universal.

34 posted on 11/29/2008 7:31:28 AM PST by MSSC6644 (Defeat Satan. Pray the Rosary)
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To: spatso
Often missionaries, especially in hospitals, work across faith lines responding simply to the need of the suffering

But the suffering is done by individuals. Christ died for the sins of individuals. We live, we give, we sin, we die as individuals.

35 posted on 11/29/2008 7:34:00 AM PST by MSSC6644 (Defeat Satan. Pray the Rosary)
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To: spatso
"Did Jesus not call us out in very specific terms to reach out to others. Indeed in the parable of the Good Samaritan Jesus clearly establishes that good works are not limited to people of faith."

Indeed. He said to "...visit the imprisoned....", but nowhere is there an admonition not to PUT them in prison if they need to be so placed.

36 posted on 11/29/2008 7:36:01 AM PST by Wonder Warthog ( The Hog of Steel)
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To: IbJensen

Although I’m not a believer I do rally to the defense of the Christian heritage of our country, and don’t take kindly to those who want to secularize our society by gov’t fiat. However, in your enthusiasm you make wild assumptions about religious traditions you clearly know little about. At times collective organization is useful, as long as participation is voluntary. However, my own experience has been that even in carefully structured cooperatives, a selfless few tend to do far more work than the others and they eventually leave in frustration and the co-op never recovers. Socialism cannot tolerate any religion except Socialism. At the moment Islam and Socialism have an alliance of convenience, but it’s no more solid than the Hitler-Stalin Pact. It’s also natural for evil to discredit and try to destroy virtue. Yet the Roman Empire is long gone but the Jews are back in Judea and thriving. A poor Tibetan monk causes the Chicoms coniption fits whenever he lunches with foriegn leaders. I believe we are on the winning side.


37 posted on 11/29/2008 7:40:09 AM PST by Gary Ogletree
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To: MSSC6644
Man plays games

Yes; it's men I was describing. (Moreover, game theory is not just about games.)

38 posted on 11/29/2008 7:46:42 AM PST by 668 - Neighbor of the Beast
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To: 668 - Neighbor of the Beast; Dutch Boy

I’d also point out that when Christ selected “the rock” upon which His church would be built, he didn’t pick the devout, mild-mannered apostle whose faith was unshakeable (St. John) . . . He picked the impulsive, aggressive guy who would deny Christ three times, and didn’t hesitate to draw a sword and cut off the ear of the high priest’s servant when they came to arrest Him.


39 posted on 11/29/2008 7:51:22 AM PST by Alberta's Child (I'm out on the outskirts of nowhere . . . with ghosts on my trail, chasing me there.)
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To: Alberta's Child

Yes but when the Lord put the band together, He had 1/12 Peter, 1/12 John, etc.
Today we have 7/12 Judas, 4/12 John, and Peter is some small portion of the remaining 1/12.


40 posted on 11/29/2008 7:59:07 AM PST by 668 - Neighbor of the Beast
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