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To: Surtur
Referring to the links I provided as somewhat credible might be seen as quibbling - but they were among the first I could google that are not known as crackpot sites..

Also - I never vouch for anything or anyone unless I can personally do so from my own knowledge.. Hardly quibbling - just being honest.

Of course - given that I've heard the scuttlebutt about Nugent for years, I'd be more prone to believe the worse about him than most... Interesting too, that with all the "talk" there doesn't seem to be a very prominent or public attempt by Nugent to kill the story.

By whatever means Nugent secured his "deferment", it appears by all the information available that is was secured by lies or a scam or possibly both...

Lots of folks pulled the same deal... I can deal with that, and still respect much of what Nugent has done since then..

However - even if ONLY the misbegotten student deferment was used to continue "rocking and rolling" while someone else bore his responsibility - it gives me the cold creeps to see or hear the fellow mouth and dress the role of macho man....

Could perhaps one of my beloved Marine brothers still be alive to share old age with me - if Nugent had stood up and fulfilled his own responsibilities in an honorable fashion?

In my mind, Nugent is one of the most reprehensible "chicken hawks" out there.... He should simple shut the hell up about his bravado.. The only warm blooded creatures Nugent has shot at or killed were four legged - and couldn't shoot back. They were unarmed.

90 posted on 11/16/2008 10:43:48 PM PST by river rat (Semper Fi - You may turn the other cheek, but I prefer to look into my enemy's vacant dead eyes.)
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To: river rat
You are entitled to your views, and I won't begrudge them to you because I can't imagine the personal hell you went through in Vietnam. I turned 18 in 1972, and that was when they were using the lottery system for drafting purposes, and I was lucky in that my lottery numbers were always above 200 so I never even received a draft notice. If I had, I would have reported for duty, so I never served either, and I regret not looking into military service when I was still eligible, but I hold those who have served in the highest regard, esp those who served in wartime situations. I support them fully, and if that makes me a "chickenhawk" I guess I will have to live with that denigration. I also used to hunt, and nothing I ever killed was able to shoot back so I guess I am also guilty of false bravado too. I guess the biggest difference between Ted and me is that I am a very private person and he is this very public figure.

I don't know Ted personally, so I have to assess him through second hand accounts from others and from his own personal writings. To me, he seems like someone who has made errors in his past and is now trying to make the best of his present by doing what he considers the correct course of action now. Like all of us, he can't undo his past mistakes, but he can try to make amends for those errors by doing better in the now. His recent writings mostly put him on my side in this cultural war we are engaged in, so I try not to judge him too harshly for his error ridden history. You may be right when you speculate that had he not gotten a deferment and had entered the service, then one of your friends might still be alive to help celebrate your old age, but then again maybe not. Ted might have gone in, and died instead of your friend, but that friend might have then come home and been killed in a car wreck or become another John Kerry. Speculation about alternative choices always have at least two sides. That is why I don't like to speculate after the fact. It just does not do anyone any good.

Ted has a very outrageous personality, and I can understand why you have some antipathy for him. I just hope that you don't have that same antipathy for all of us in that same age range who didn't serve. And to be totally honest here, many of us who drew high numbers in the lottery mentioned above felt we had been blessed and given a new lease on life, myself included. Looking back, I feel some shame for having felt that way, but when you are young and your life is in front of you, sometimes abstract concepts like honor and integrity and service to others aren't the force in your life that they will become later on. In a way, I envy those who were drafted during that time because they learned those abstracts a lot sooner than the rest of us. Their innocence died much sooner so that ours could be extended, and for that, I again say thank you.

91 posted on 11/17/2008 12:00:13 AM PST by Surtur (Palin-Nugent 2012)
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