Posted on 11/14/2008 7:04:26 PM PST by Red Steel
President Bush could pardon officials involved in brutal interrogations -- but he may also face a sweeping investigation under the new president.
WASHINGTON -- With growing talk in Washington that President Bush may be considering an unprecedented "blanket pardon" for people involved in his administration's brutal interrogation policies, advisors to Barack Obama are pressing ahead with plans for a nonpartisan commission to investigate alleged abuses under Bush.
The Obama plan, first revealed by Salon in August, would emphasize fact-finding investigation over prosecution. It is gaining currency in Washington as Obama advisors begin to coordinate with Democrats in Congress on the proposal. The plan would not rule out future prosecutions, but would delay a decision on that matter until all essential facts can be unearthed. Between the time necessary for the investigative process and the daunting array of policy problems Obama will face upon taking office, any decision on prosecutions probably would not come until a second Obama presidential term, should there be one.
The proposed commission -- similar in thrust to a Democratic investigation proposal first uncovered by Salon in July -- would examine a broad scope of activities, including detention, torture and extraordinary rendition, the practice of snatching suspected terrorists off the street and whisking them off to a third country for abusive interrogations. The commission might also pry into the claims by the White House -- widely rejected by experienced interrogators -- that abusive interrogations are an effective and necessary intelligence tool.
A common view among those involved with the talks is that any early effort to prosecute Bush administration officials would likely devolve quickly into ugly and fruitless partisan warfare. Second is that even if Obama decided he had the appetite for it, prosecutions in this arena are problematic at best: A series of memos from the Bush Justice Department approved the harsh tactics, and Congress changed the War Crimes Act in 2006, making prosecutions of individuals involved in interrogations more difficult.
Instead, a commission empowered by Congress would have the authority to compel witnesses to testify and even to grant immunity in exchange for information. Should a particularly ugly picture emerge, the option of prosecutions would still theoretically be on the table later, however unlikely.
In Obama's camp, there is a sense among some that such a commission would essentially mean letting Bush get away with crimes. "People have called for criminal investigations," one person familiar with the talks told me this summer as plans got under way. On Wednesday, a person participating in the talks confirmed that some people involved in the planning felt strongly that the commission would amount to "bullshit" and that Bush officials should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.
But few think prosecutions are realistic, given the formidable legal hurdles and the huge policy problems competing for Obama's attention. Among them is the complicated task of closing down the military prison at Guantánamo Bay, which Obama advisors say is a priority. Some observers outside the Obama camp are also questioning how much Democrats really want exposed with regard to interrogation, since top Democrats in Congress were briefed in secret on some of the harshest tactics used by the CIA and appear to have done little, or perhaps nothing, to stop them.
Further complicating the Obama team's planning is uncertainty about what President Bush might do. On the one hand, a blanket pardon for anyone involved in the interrogations could be viewed by the public as a tacit admission of colossal wrongdoing -- after years of public denial -- which would do nothing to help Bush's tarnished legacy. Yet, if the administration fears an investigation will follow Bush out the door in January, they may not want to leave officials exposed to potentially revealing criminal proceedings. Bush might seek to frame a blanket pardon as a preemptive strike against wrongheaded, partisan retribution.
Constitutional scholars say a pardon of this kind would be an unprecedented move -- the prospective pardon of not just individuals but entire categories of people, perhaps numbering in the thousands, for carrying out the president's orders , which the White House has argued all along were legal.
Those scholars agree, however, that Article II of the Constitution gives Bush much latitude: There is no authority that can stop the president from doing so if he wishes, and there is no outside check or balance to revisit such a decision, however controversial it may be. "The president can do with pardoning power whatever he wants," explained University of Wisconsin Law School professor Stanley Kutler. "It is complete and plenary unto itself."
A blanket pardon from Bush could cover, for example, anyone who participated in, had knowledge of, or received information about Bush's interrogation program during the so-called war on terror. Not only are there potentially too many people to name without risking missing somebody, but some of the names are presumably classified.
"The classic pardon is an identifiable individual; here you are talking about potentially thousands of people involved in illegal activities," explained Jonathan Turley, a professor at George Washington Law School. A blanket pardon of this variety, Turley said, "would allow a president to engage in massive illegality and generally pardon the world for any involvement in unlawful activity."
There are, in fact, some constitutional scholars who believe a pardon might actually facilitate more complete participation in a fact-finding commission, by removing the threat of looming liability. "Holding people accountable is certainly nice, but in terms of healing the country and moving forward, so is actually getting a clear picture of what happened and letting the public make an informed decision," said Kermit Roosevelt at the University of Pennsylvania Law School. "If we had a pardon followed by something like a truth and reconciliation commission, that might not be such a bad outcome." (Roosevelt represents a detainee held at Guantánamo.)
The politics of it would be fraught with danger, however, and could so blemish Bush's legacy that some doubt he would go so far. "A pardon is an admission of guilt," noted Donald Kettl, a political science professor at the University of Pennsylvania. Bush has argued for years that his interrogation program was perfectly legal. With a pardon, Kettl said, Bush is essentially saying, "Gee, maybe we did not do the right thing."
It is not entirely unprecedented for a president to grant a pardon based on a category of behavior, rather than pardoning an individual by name. The day after his inauguration, President Carter pardoned all those who avoided the Vietnam draft by failing to register or by fleeing to Canada. George Washington pardoned participants in the 1794 Whiskey Rebellion. Andrew Johnson pardoned Confederate soldiers in 1865.
But these were pardons designed to foster reconciliation, handed out to categories of individuals who acted on their own conscience, rather than the president's own allegedly illegal orders. "This would be a different deal completely," explained Kettl. "It would be anticipating that people thought the official policy of the administration was wrong."
And, much as Harry Truman did after he left office, President Bush can (and probably will) tell Congress to go pound sand. There is precedent in this case, and they’re not about to appease the loony left for something like this. Just because Bush has left office doesn’t mean his executive privilege expires.
And, the lowest bidders would have had a ball!
0bama will soon learn that the new guy covers for the old guy, because in time he will be the old guy depending on the new guy for a pass.
Just as Bush covered for Clinton, so will 0bama cover for Bush.
Soviets blamed everything on the past leader. nuff said.
It will eventually occur to these folks that Bush and his "cronies" do not deserve legal protections. The court of the "people" has spoken. Same goes for Bush's supporters.
B.H.O. shouldn’t really go there... that is if he doesn’t want to be dragged through the mud in 2013 or beyond.
What “brutal interrogation policies?”
Water boarding? Our own troops are water boarded as part of their training.
Like Rush’s T-shirts say....
“Club Gitmo.....Your Tropical Retreat from the Stress of Jihad.”
I hope Pres. Bush would tell Obama the same thing he told the terrorists, “Bring it on!”
The Dims just can’t resist overreaching.
Like there’s nothing else the brilliant minds of the incoming administration might have to occupy their time.
More welfare for lawyers and urinalists, methinks.
Water boarding?
Yeah, the dingbats think so.
It would be the end of the rats if he went on with it.
no he won’t he has no class and cares nothing about the country
Better fix the economy before heading off on a witch hunt. Not good to torture U.S. citizens who have to watch misdirected government.
Sounds like a coming witch hunt by Hussein.
This is not a case of somebody's hand in the till, or lying to a grand jury, or clintonian malfeasance. This is a politically inspired attempt to punish those who carried out the national security operations of the U.S. government during a time of war.
Way to get the insurrection ball rolling Obama you idiot.
MARCH 2002 : (HARLEM, NY CITY : "NION PROJECT" IS SPAWNED AT ST MARY'S "CHURCH" -- SEE OBAMA CAMPAIGN BUNDLER JODIE EVANS OF CODE PINK) In March 2002, individuals from different organizations, backgrounds, communities and political perspectives met together at St. Mary's Church in Harlem, NYC, to discuss what was needed to build resistance to the U.S. government's "war on terrorism" launched in the aftermath of September 11, 2001. The group recognized that the government was embarking on a new openly imperial policy towards the world and a dangerous escalation in the curtailment of rights domestically.
The Not in Our Name Pledge of Resistance and Statement of Conscience-Not in Our Name are the two living documents that were developed from the March 2002 meeting and express the essence of the Not in Our Name Project. Participation is open to individuals and organizations that adopt the Pledge and participate in Not in Our Name-initiated and supported events and campaigns. ------About the Not in Our Name Project http://www.notinourname.net/archive/mission-statement-aug03.htm ...19 posted on 06/27/2005 5:39:06 PM PDT by listenhillary | To 1
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* C. Clark Kissinger and Mary Lou Greenberg, both of whom are Directors of NION and members of the Revolutionary Communist Party (RCP). Clark Kissinger, co-director of NION and the RCP, was quoted as saying that when the RCP took over, “it would be necessary to shoot everyone who didn't agree with them." -----Not In Our Name and the World Wide Terrorism Web: The "Peace" Movement's Trojan Horse.,," FrontPageMagazine.com ^ | Wednesday, March 19, 2003 | By Michael Tremoglie
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* Not In Our Name : An unsavory cast of fringe groups has also slimed its way into the “Free Lynne Stewart” sweepstakes. Refuse and Resist, a group headed by Maoist Clark Kissinger (also the leader of the anti-war group Not In Our Name), actively promotes Stewart. Kissinger is also a leader of the Revolutionary Communist Party.
Other fringe communist groups supporting Stewart include Pravda, the World Socialist Website, the Committee to Support Revolution in Peru (an arm of Peru’s bloodthirsty “Shining Path” rebels) and International A.N.S.W.E.R (Act Now to Stop War and End Racism)—the Stalinist sect at the helm of many recent anti-war protests.
---------- " Cheerleaders for Terrorism: Radical lawyer Lynne Stewart continues her support for Islamic terror ," By Erick Stakelbeck, FrontPageMagazine.com, Wednesday, June 17, 2003 posted June 18, 2003
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According to L.A. Weekly writer Steven Mikulan; "the “Not in My Name” campaign - which pushes an anti-war statement signed by scores of prominent and celebrity lefties, including Jane Fonda, Martin Luther King III, Marisa Tomei, Kurt Vonnegut and Oliver Stone - has been directed, in part, by C. Clark Kissinger, a longtime Maoist activist and member of the Revolutionary Communist Party." Mikulan continued; "Lately, another kind of debate has swirled around the doctrinaire beliefs of the anti-war movement’s organizers. International ANSWER (Act Now To Stop War and End Racism), the group behind Saturday’s march, is the creation of a Trotskyite sect called the Workers World Party, which noisily supports such pleasure domes as North Korea and Yugoslavia under Milosevic.
Similarly, the Not in My Name project, which sponsored a celebrity anti-war petition campaign, can be traced back to the Maoist Revolutionary Communist Party, who, like the WWP, has nary a discouraging word to say about Saddam Hussein — or any anti-American tyrant and guerrilla movement."
------------- Steven Mikulan, LA Weekly Writer in Open City: Following the Flags in San Francisco, Fri Nov 1, 2002. The LA Weekly is an alternative weekly newspaper. Also seen in "Behind the Placards : The odd and troubling origins of today’s anti-war movement," by David Corn, Washington Editor for the progressive The Nation.;" Jane Fonda joins with Revolutionary Communist Party," Jane Fonda Files, Jane Fonda Files Posted on 03/24/2003 9:48 PM PST by Creekblood
SEPTEMBER 19, 2002 : (NION AD IS PUBLISHED IN THE NY TIMES) "Here is our answer; We refuse to allow you to speak for all the American People... We refuse to be party to these wars and we repudiate any inference that they are being waged in our name or welfare. We extend a hand to those around the world suffering from these policies; we will show our solidarity in word and deed." Not In Our Name Advertisement New York Times, September 19, 2002 19 posted on 06/27/2005 5:39:06 PM PDT by listenhillary | To 1
OCTOBER 6, 2002 : (NY CITY : NION INVITES SAMI AL ARIAN {see TAMPA CELL} & LYNNE STEWART {see OMAR ABDUL RAHMAN} TO THEIR RALLY IN CENTRAL PARK) However, NION’s links with Muslim terrorists are not just indirect, through IFCO. NION invited both Sami Al-Arian and Lynne Stewart to address their October 6, 2002 rally in Central Park. Stewart was indicted for passing messages on behalf of her terrorist client Sheikh Omar Abdul Rahman. ------ "Not In Our Name and the World Wide Terrorism Web: The "Peace" Movement's Trojan Horse.," By Michael Tremoglie, FrontPageMagazine.com, Wednesday, March 19, 2003
JUNE 2005 : (MICHAEL RATNER BEHIND "WAR ON GITMO" -- See BLEEDINGHEARTATTACK, ELLEN RATNER, EMPIRE STATE BUILDING, MALL OF AMERICA, NATIONAL LAWYER'S GUILD, CENTER FOR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS, CUBA, CHE, LYNNE STEWART {See 1993 WTC CONSPIRATOR OMAR ABDURAHMAN}, GEORGE SOROS, TIDES FOUNDATION, WORLD CAN'T WAIT ) Important companion thread - David Horowitz is highlighting people that we need to know as our enemies in this fight for the future of America.
The man behind the attack on Guantanamo (traitorous b*st*rd Michael Ratner) front page mag ^ | 6-16-05 | DiPippo , http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1424416/posts
47 posted on 06/19/2005 7:27:20 AM PDT by maica
JUNE 23-27, 2005 : (ISTANBUL, TURKEY : "WORLD TRIBUNAL ON IRAQ" aka WTI [* aka GATHERING OF LOONS]--- See NION, UPJ, CODE PINK, ANSWER, GREEN PEACE, CONGRESSMAN DICK DURBIN)
OCTOBER 2005 : (NION-ORGANIZED 2005 ICICAHCBA* MEETING [* Group of loons endorsed by CCR, NLG, After Downing Street.org, former Sen. James Abourezk, former British MP Tony Benn, authors Gore Vidal and Howard Zinn, poet Lawrence Ferlinghetti, and actor Edward Asner... ]) [the mock "indictments" against the Bush admin were the result of ] preparatory work and testimony presented in New York City in October 2005, before the International Commission of Inquiry on Crimes Against Humanity Committed by the Bush Administration which featured former UN envoy to Iraq Denis Halliday, Guantanamo prisoners' lawyer Michael Ratner, and former State Department officer Ann Wright.
---- "Citizen's Tribunal Indicts Bush Administration for War Crimes and Crimes Against Humanity, " US newswire ^ | 1/9/06
JANUARY 10, 2006 : (LEFTIES & MOCK INDICTMENTS & NION-ORGANIZED ICICAHCBA BOGUS TRIBUNAL #1-- See CCR, RATNER, MCGOVERN{VIPS})
To: Assignment Desk, Daybook Editor---- "Citizen's Tribunal Indicts Bush Administration for War Crimes and Crimes Against Humanity, " US newswire ^ | 1/9/06
Contact: Connie Julian, 917-449-9064, Janet Yip 212-941-8086 or commission@nion.us
News Advisory:From: International Commission of Inquiry on Crimes Against Humanity Committed by the Bush Administration [ ICICAHCBA]
WHEN: January 10, 2006 at 1:30 p.m.
WHERE: The White House, Walk-in Gate, across from Lafayette Park
WEBSITE: http://www.bushcommission.orgAn unprecedented series of indictments alleging war crimes and crimes against humanity, in five separate areas, on moral, political, and legal grounds, will be delivered by a citizens' tribunal to President Bush at the front gate of the White House this Tuesday, January 10th. Named in the indictments are: President of the United States George W. Bush, Vice President Richard Cheney, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, U.S. Army Lieutenant General Ricardo Sanchez, U.S. Army Major General Geoffrey Miller, Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, et al. The indictments will be delivered to the White House by: Retired CIA analyst Ray McGovern [* MY NOTE: VIPS MEMBER, see NIGERFLAP, VALERIE PLAME CIA LEAK], authors William Blum and Larry Everest, Code Pink, Mike Hersh (Progressive Democrats of America/After Downing Street), Kevin Zeese (Director, Democracy Rising; candidate for U.S. Senate in Maryland), Travis Morales (World Can't Wait -- Drive Out the Bush Regime) and others TBA.
A press conference will follow delivery of indictments, which will also be delivered to the Department of Justice.
The indictments result from preparatory work and testimony presented in New York City in October 2005, before the International Commission of Inquiry on Crimes Against Humanity Committed by the Bush Administration which featured former UN envoy to Iraq Denis Halliday, Guantanamo prisoners' lawyer Michael Ratner, and former State Department officer Ann Wright. The Commission's second tribunal will be held at Riverside Church and the Columbia University Law School[see BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA, AL KHALIDI] in New York, January 20- 22. Witnesses will include Brig. Gen. Janis Karpinski [* MY NOTE: Abu Ghraib slacker], former British ambassador Craig Murray, and former arms inspector Scott Ritter, among many more. The indictments allege war crimes and crimes against humanity authorized by the Bush Administration in relation to:1) Wars of Aggression, particular reference to Iraq and Afghanistan;Appended to these indictments will be the demand for investigation of the war crimes of Tony Blair and George Bush submitted by prominent British citizens to the UN Secretary General and the UK Attorney General.2) Torture and Indefinite Detention;
3) Destruction of the Global Environment, particular reference to distortion of science and obstruction of international efforts to stem global warming;
4) Attacks on Global Public Health and Reproductive Rights, particular reference to the potentially genocidal effects of enforcing abstinence only, global gag rule, distortion of science, and restriction of generic drugs; and
5) Failure of Bush administration, despite foreknowledge, to protect life during and after Hurricane Katrina.
The commission was organized by the Not in Our Name Statement of Conscience and is endorsed by: Center for Constitutional Rights, National Lawyers Guild, After Downing Street.org and others, including Former Sen. James Abourezk, former British MP Tony Benn, authors Gore Vidal and Howard Zinn, poet Lawrence Ferlinghetti, and actor Edward Asner.
Charter, full indictments, standards for judgment, and audio and video coverage of the first session:
http://www.bushcommission.org
2002 : (WOODS FUND GRANTS AAAN $35,000--- see MONA KHALIDI {see her husband PROFESSOR RASHID KHALIDI }; also see AYERS {see WEATHER UNDERGROUND} ; also see B H OBAMA) The [Woods] Fund provided a second grant to the AAAN for $35,000 in 2002. ------ "Obama worked with terrorist ," BY Aaron Klein , wnd, 2/24/2008
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The [Woods] Fund provided a second grant to the AAAN for $35,000 in 2002. Obama was a director of the Woods Fund board from 1999 to Dec. 11, 2002, according to the Fund's website. ...(Excerpt) Read more at worldnetdaily.com ...
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The board of a nonprofit organization [The Woods Fund] on which Sen. Barack Obama served as a paid director alongside a confessed domestic terrorist granted funding to a controversial Arab group that mourns the establishment of Israel as a "catastrophe" and supports intense immigration reform, including providing drivers licenses and education to illegal aliens. The co-founder of the Arab group in question, Columbia University professor Rashid Khalidi, also has held a fundraiser for Obama. Khalidi is a harsh critic of Israel, has made statements supportive of Palestinian terror and reportedly has worked on behalf of the Palestine Liberation Organization while it was involved in anti-Western terrorism and was labeled by the State Department as a terror group. ------ "Obama worked with terrorist ," BY Aaron Klein , wnd, 2/24/2008 JERUSALEM
To think that if those guys were simply capped on the battlefield nobody would give two flips about them.
Again the loony left seeks to create constitutional rights that don’t exist or for those for whom they’ve never existed, meanwhile seeking to get rid of those constitutional rights which have existed for centuries.
Anyways, here’s the fundamental problem with the US circa 2008. We’re fighting a 7th century enemy but we’re expecting them to behave according to 20th/21st century rules. Absurd. The Geneva Convention is meant for nation-states and their armies. Because al-Qaida cares so much about battlefield etiquette, we must tie ourselves in politically correct left wing knots instead of grabbing the shotgun and putting the rabid dog out of its misery.
If everything isn’t just rainbows and unicorns then the left pulls a hissy fit. Unless you are willing to get your hands dirty, you aren’t going to survive in this world. 7th century enemies call for 7th century tactics. You may speak the language of reason and human rights, but they speak the language of conquest and submission. Oh, and they don’t much care for the “rights” of gays and women. How about this...the jihadis get to move in with us and all you lefties get to live under their rules. Think of it as a cool new reality TV series. Survivor: Islamerica.
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