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US Supreme Court allows sonar use
BBC ^ | November 12, 2008

Posted on 11/12/2008 9:46:39 AM PST by jazusamo

The US Supreme Court has removed restrictions on the navy's use of sonar in training exercises near California.

The ruling is a defeat for environmental groups who say the sonar can kill whales and other mammals.

President George W Bush intervened in the long-running dispute, citing national security interests.

In its 5-4 ruling, the Supreme Court said the navy needed to conduct realistic training exercises to respond to potential threats.

The court did not deal with the merits of the claims put forward by the environmental groups.

It said, rather, that federal courts abused their discretion by ordering the navy to limit sonar use in some cases and to turn it off altogether in others.

(Excerpt) Read more at news.bbc.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; US: California
KEYWORDS: environment; judiciary; navy; scotus; sonar; usn
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1 posted on 11/12/2008 9:46:39 AM PST by jazusamo
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To: jazusamo

I have to ask.... how can sonar (err... sound reflections) kill anything?


2 posted on 11/12/2008 9:47:45 AM PST by Pantera
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To: Pantera

“I have to ask.... how can sonar (err... sound reflections) kill anything?”

Not to mention, don’t whales already sort of use their own sonar?


3 posted on 11/12/2008 9:49:09 AM PST by Slapshot68
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To: jazusamo
In its 5-4 ruling, the Supreme Court ...
Gee, how did I know the vote before I even read it?
4 posted on 11/12/2008 9:50:58 AM PST by oh8eleven (RVN '67-'68)
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To: Pantera

They are not talking about passive SONAR.


5 posted on 11/12/2008 9:51:14 AM PST by battlecry
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To: Slapshot68
Ah, Wikipedia clears it up: "High-powered sonar transmitters may harm marine animals, although the precise mechanisms for this are not well understood."

Another theory without any evidence whatsoever put forward as a barrier to progress.
6 posted on 11/12/2008 9:52:02 AM PST by Pantera
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To: jazusamo

Lets see, well the wacko environMENTALists probably believe the navy’s sonar confuses the whales sonar causing the whales to crash into each other or some such nonsense.


7 posted on 11/12/2008 9:52:21 AM PST by teletech (Friends don't let friends vote DemocRAT)
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To: jazusamo

If they didn’t do this, we might as well pull all our ships into their home ports. This should have never gotten to the courts.


8 posted on 11/12/2008 9:53:44 AM PST by RC2
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To: jazusamo

I’m sure Obama will reverse this.


9 posted on 11/12/2008 9:58:24 AM PST by Daveinyork
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To: jazusamo

Federal courts abuse their discretion all the time. Will the USSC do anything about that? No, I didn’t think so.


10 posted on 11/12/2008 10:00:04 AM PST by PeterFinn (Joe Biden for President)
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To: oh8eleven; All
Yes, not surprising it was a 5-4 ruling. Ginsburg wrote in dissent and Roberts wasn't wasn't kind to her. An excerpt from another article in The Oregonian.

In dissent, Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg said that the Navy's own assessment predicted substantial and irreparable harm to marine mammals from the service's exercises. She said that "this likely harm ... cannot be lightly dismissed, even in the face of an alleged risk to the effectiveness of the Navy's 14 training exercises."

Roberts pointed out that the federal appeals court decision restricting the Navy's sonar training acknowledged that the record contained no evidence marine mammals had been harmed.

Court rules for Navy in dispute over sonar, whales

11 posted on 11/12/2008 10:01:26 AM PST by jazusamo (DefendOurMarines.org | DefendOurTroops.org)
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To: jazusamo

Someone needs to rip her a new one. How patently absurd when highly speculated harm to marine life trumps our national security interests! Can you imagine China or Russia dealing with this issue?


12 posted on 11/12/2008 10:06:56 AM PST by MBB1984
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To: Daveinyork
I’m sure Obama will reverse this.

It's a possibility but hopefully Adm. Mullen can convince him otherwise.

13 posted on 11/12/2008 10:07:13 AM PST by jazusamo (DefendOurMarines.org | DefendOurTroops.org)
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To: jazusamo
So, if I'm reading that correctly, Ginsburg made up evidence. Not surprised.
At the least, she puts the "likely harm" to the whales ahead of the "alleged risk" to the fleet.
Freakin' commie ought to be impeached ........ if not worse.
14 posted on 11/12/2008 10:11:16 AM PST by oh8eleven (RVN '67-'68)
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To: jazusamo

How can environmentalists get to the Supreme Court without any actual evidence, let alone get a narrow ruling of 5-4???

This does not bode well for potential ‘Global Warming’ lawsuits.


15 posted on 11/12/2008 10:13:40 AM PST by kidd
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To: oh8eleven
In its 5-4 ruling, the Supreme Court ... Gee, how did I know the vote before I even read it?

Well, I assume Kennedy jumped to our side with the Fab Four, at least this time.

16 posted on 11/12/2008 10:13:57 AM PST by Marathoner (Down the drain with B Hussein)
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To: jazusamo

It won’t be long before you can kiss any decisions like this goodby.


17 posted on 11/12/2008 10:16:16 AM PST by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
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To: freema; smoothsailing; george76; girlangler

Common sense prevails in our countries security over the enviro wackos.


18 posted on 11/12/2008 10:18:40 AM PST by jazusamo (DefendOurMarines.org | DefendOurTroops.org)
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To: Pantera
Imagine standing next to a bass speaker designed for stadium use. Multiply the sound level by a thousand times.

These sub sonars project enormous power.

I don't know and don't really care what the enviros claim, but I don't doubt there is potential damage to whale hearing (if that is the correct term) or perhaps other internal organs if they are close by.

19 posted on 11/12/2008 10:23:13 AM PST by Jacquerie (All Muslims are suspect.)
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To: jazusamo

It is important that this was an issue involving a federal statute, not the U.S. Constitution.

The Congress can overturn this decision via the legislative process.


20 posted on 11/12/2008 10:23:13 AM PST by dbz77
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