Posted on 11/04/2008 10:20:52 PM PST by paudio
I know this view is not popular here, but we need to have an honest discussion after what happened last night. There has been many calls to throw 'RINOs' out of the party. Yesterday's results, however, show that we cannot do that. Like it or not, conservatism is a word with many meanings: social, economic, libertarian, 'patriotic' conservatism, etc. Recently, it's obvious that whatever coalition that Reagan put together has fallen apart. Dubya, ran as a conservative,managed to bring all factions together, but as a president, he gave privilege to one or two factions, and left the others cold.
Sarah Palin may be the darling of social conservatives, but not necessarily of the other conservatives. When we said 'she rallies the base', it seems now that we only meant 'she rallies the social conservatives'. It should be clear now that there are just not enough social conservative voters to win a national election. With her on McCain ticket, we cannot argue that 'the base' stayed home tonight.
The way I see it, in order to rebuild the party, we need to start from one of two assumptions: (1) there exists a conservative idea that encompass all factions of 'conservatism', or (2) Such idea doesn't exist, but we only had good communicator that managed to bring different people together. I used to think it was number one, but recently I started to doubt about it. It seems to me that the second one is much more important. Reagan, Newt, and candidate Bush (not the president) did a good job in their time.
So, in my opinion, in order to be able to compete with the Dims again, we need to find a person that can unite the whole factions back. Perhaps, we also need an issue to do so.
The other problem we have now is the tarnished brand of conservatism and Republican party that was caused by Dubya's inability or unwillingness to counter the media's narratives. At this moment, more than ever, we need to win the independents and moderates. Hoping them to vote for conservative candidates while throwing the 'moderates' in the party is really a misplaced hope.
Uh, no.
If you don’t respect your base, you can’t persuade anyone to join it.
Remember: the problem with McCain was that he was so far from the base, and far enough left, that those closest to him saw Obama as a viable, even preferable, option.
“Listen, noob, McCain was the big tent nominee. That didn’t work so well. Without Palin, he would have lost by even greater numbers. On the other hand, someone to McCain’s right, President Bush, managed to win two times, the second victory being especially important because half the country hated his guts.”
Lovely. Because I’m a so-called “noob” means that my opinion doesn’t count? I don’t know how old you are, but I am old enough (over 50, if it matters to ya) to know bull when I see or read it. Governor Palin is OUR governor and she has our full support and respect. President Bush won after the Clinton years...and I voted for President Bush both times and to this day I will defend him against those who want to toss him under the bus too.
This “noob” firmly believes that we would not have won tonight if we had had a more right-leaning Republican on the ticket. How can you not see that? We had people crossing over from the Dem side to vote for McCain because he was more of a centrist. And you, and those like you cling to your belief that if we had only been farther to the right we would have won?
That philosophy only works if you are saying that the Republican base, those purists to the right, didn’t vote for McCain, or stayed home, or voted for Obama. And if THAT is the case, then they are to blame for the situation we are in today. They couldn’t live to fight another day? Rhey were willing to throw our troops under Obama’s bus to make a point? They were willing to hand our country over to the Democrats, who are now in COMPLETE CONTROL, just to prove a point?
The blood of those who serve is on the hands of each and every one of those who helped Obama by being......sooooo pure and righteous.
Listen, I’m sorry for ranting, but I’m madder than hell tonight. Over and out...
It doesn’t matter what any of us think as long as the Iowa Caucus and New Hampshire determine who everyone else votes for in South Carolina, Florida, etc.... and as long as NH allows people to come in, register and vote same day even if you don’t live in NH.
I live in the northeast and I have no idea why RINOs are in the party to begin with. After getting the "moderate" they have been clammering for all these years they turn around and vote in droves for a socialist. Now they want a seat at the table to tell us what direction they want the party to steer (socialism lite?), sorry but no thanks. The movement need to be energized with people committed to our ideas, not with these "moderates". They will only destroy conservativism as they are not committed to it.
We cannot beat them if we are not different. I do not want to be them. I want to be the party of Reagan...Love of God and Country.
I don’t see how this is entirely true if, according to these polls,
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/results/polls/#USP00p1
52% of people making over $200K WANTED Obama. These are not the people looking for handouts. This is the group of people he has promised to tax at a greater rate. I assume these people are your average capitalist money-makers as opposed to socialist hand-out seekers.
Why did we lose THEM? I wish we could ask them...
The only time we tried a "little tent full of purists" in a national election was 1964, which bombed but laid the foundation for Ronald Reagan's political career.
Unless you mean the Reagan years. No, I guess that doesn't work for you does it. That little tent actually did save America.
This is part of the reflection.
You missed my point and/or can’t see it.
Obama mesmerized the masses.....he brought in millions upon millions of campaign dollars....there are many reasons why he was able to buy, and hypnotize the masses. He had the MSM on his campaign committee. What more did he need?
If you truly believe that all of those who voted for Obama would have voted for the Republican on the ballot IF that person had only been farther to the right, then I fear, you simply do not understand the situation. We had Sarah Palin and even that didn’t sway the electorate. And Governor Palin is a true conservative.
We were sold out. It’s just that simple. It’s about New World Order. Our alleged leaders and alleged leaders we know nothing of sold America out. The people lost their voice. Just as the Civil War was not about slavery; this is not about race. It’s about dominance.
I don’t know the faces of these alleged leaders or even their names; but I hope they rot in hell the rest of their lives. I know at the very least they will have the nightmare of hell each and every day the rest of their lives of what they have done to our country.
Politically, our country has never been majority conservative or liberal and probably never will be. It has always been mostly pragmatic or practical, as have been most of our successful leaders, including Regan. While we have ideologs on both the left and the right and often choose leadership with an ideological tint, most citizens just want government that is honest and efficient. Voters have remarkable patience but when they feel betrayed, they really don’t care about political parties or ideological purity. During tough times, more government will be accepted than during periods of tranquility but radical policies whether from the left or right will not be embraced for long.
We can complain about a poor presidential candidate, biased media, voter fraud, economic manipulation or many other reasons most of which are probably true. However, the bottom line is that Republican leadership was entrusted with both the executive and legislative branches of government and they failed on the critical test of honesty and efficiency. They became a mirror image of those they replaced. The argument that “if you just vote for us again we will promise to stop our bad practices and be better stewards and besides, the other group will be far worse” just doesn’t cut it.
Republican came to power because Democrats lost the trust of the people, not because of a more clever argument or more acceptable philosophy and they lost power for the same reason. Democrats will suffer the same fate; the only question is how long it will take them. With their leadership, I suspect it will not be that long. Hopefully, by the time the people are ready for another change, the Republican Party will be prepared to respond.
Well, he did talk about "our liberal friends" once in awhile, but never to their face!
Basically, McCain has only himself to blame for his loss. At the beginning of September, he was ahead in the polls and battleground states. But because of the way he completely mishandled the phony financial crisis and because of his own stupid anti-First Amendment law, he lost. It sucks to have an anti-American Marxist as the new president (but not my president!), but he didn't lose because he was "too conservative"!
Palin-Jindal 2012!
This is 2008 and the little tent has collapsed. I long for the Reagan years, but we’re fighting an uphill battle against the far-left and the MSM, and a fanatical bunch of murderers who want to destroy us. Time to re-evaluate the situation, IMO.
I think you are wholly misguided.
Bush ran as a Conservative, but governed as a Globalist Bakerite. Any attention he gave to the base was incidental. There has not been a Conservative Republican in the run for the White House since Reagan- All have been Bakerites- All have been Globalists, including McCain.
Every single Reagan Conservative is gone from the running by South Carolina in the primaries, and never even offered to the red states for their consideration.
My point being that Reaganism, and the Reagan Coalition is stifled purposefully so that the poser can attempt to mimic it, and hope to control the Conservatives to their advantage. It will always be so, as if the posers allow true Conservatives to be heard, their grasp on power will be immediately ended, and they know it. Globalism and Conservatism cannot be reconciled.
For that reason, the Republican party is finished. It cannot be fixed. It must be undone. Too many in it’s ranks have learned to pose, and are loyal to another.
You may do as you like, but I will not go back to the Republicans. I will go forward with another party, probably the AIP, built from the ground up to service Reagan Conservatism, and loyal to that function to it’s very core.
The answer to your observation is the first, of course. Reagan Conservatism harnesses all three pillars of conservatism nicely, and it works whenever it is tried. But in order for it to work, it must be attempted by those who believe in it- not those who would use it for their convenience. They are found out each and every time.
The Republican party will not respond because there is no Republican party. There has not been for years.
The only thing that made the race close at all was the addition of Palin to the ticket.
Nice try, though.
If that were really true McCain would be President-elect. I am not sure about AK, but here in NJ and PA RINOs were the ones crossing to the Dem side.
I spent many years working in the same building as Baker. In fact, right under his offices. You would not want to work there. He ran it as a prison.
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