Posted on 10/12/2008 1:15:41 PM PDT by metmom
PORTERVILLE, Calif. — National forests and parks — long popular with Mexican marijuana-growing cartels — have become home to some of the most polluted pockets of wilderness in America because of the toxic chemicals needed to eke lucrative harvests from rocky mountainsides, federal officials said.
The grow sites have taken hold from the West Coast's Cascade Mountains, as well as on federal lands in Kentucky, Tennessee and West Virginia.
(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...
I knew you could outdo yourself with a little encouragement.
yeah, then we will have millions of more addicts due to it’s easy and legal status...pretty dumb.
Unfortunately for your argument, pot is not physically addictive. Alcohol and tobacco are. Try again.
so what if it’s mind and spirit addicting and not physically addicting...The mind addiction is probably worse. Happy and calm people don’t need to feel artificially good. Take a look at the be still exercise at fhu.com if you would like to see real and lasting peace in your life.
your welcome...the be still exercise is the real prayer that the church has lost.
What makes you think that there are millions of people out there just waiting for marijuana to be legalized so they can finally smoke it? Most years the U.S. has the highest per capita number of pot smokers in the world, and when we aren't at the very top we're right up there close to it. There is no country where a substantially higher percentage of the people smoke marijuana than what we see in the U.S.
Our laws don't stop a lot of people from smoking pot. It's already easily available. It's everywhere. The laws don't deter people because it's so easy to get away with smoking marijuana without ever getting caught, and if people do get caught not much will happen to them, especially if they live in one of the several states that have decriminalized where it's basically just like a traffic ticket and people don't end up with a criminal record. Even in parts of the country where the laws are harsher and the consequences of getting caught much more severe, people still aren't deterred because, again, it's so easy to do it without ever getting caught. Most pot smokers never get caught. They keep it at home for the most part and the police never even know they exist. The idiots that do get caught are often caught over and over again, but the majority could smoke pot thousands of times throughout the course of their lives and never get caught, and they know this. Young people who want to try pot are never going to be deterred much by the laws.
The laws don't work. If they did, we'd see substantial differences in the percentage of people that smoke pot in states that have decriminalized and those that haven't. Instead what we see is that per capita use is high even in some states with the harshest laws and in some states where they've decriminalized it is low. We see the same thing internationally. Look at Holland. For more than 30 years now they've allowed people to possess marijuana. They even sell from shops there out in the open. Some of these places are chains. In some cases they'll have like a neon marijuana leaf or something on the store front. They aren't hidden at all. Some will have their product displayed like donuts and bear claws and whatnot like you might find at a bakery. Others hand you a menu with several different varieties of marijuana, hash and marijuana food products on it. These store have permits to do what they are doing, pay taxes and all that. This has been going on for decades there. And guess what, the most recent study I saw showed that slightly less than 20% of the Dutch have tried marijuana compared to over 40% of Americans. With all that easy access, why aren’t all the Dutch running around with five joints hanging out of their mouths?
The reason more people don't smoke marijuana here or in Holland or anywhere else is because there are all sorts of good reasons not to smoke it not related to its legal status. Despite what some people might think, it's not that great. Most people who do try it don't like it that much, or we'd have a heck of a lot more pot smokers. According to our latest government survey, over a 100 million Americans have tried marijuana. If it was legal would we see a huge jump in use? I doubt it very seriously. We already have among the highest use rates in the world. there is no other place where a substantially greater percentage of the population smokes it. It doesn't matter if the laws are on the harsh side or whether they basically just allow it like the do in the Netherlands and several other countries. There are just so many people that will want to smoke marijuana despite all the negatives that come along with it. We might see a spike for a while until the novelty wears off, but after that we might very well see use dropping just like we've seen with tobacco. Marijuana is entirely unregulated and with some fluctuations in the use numbers use has remained high in this country. Tobacco use has been dropping now for decades. We could probably do the same thing with pot, and it will help a lot that all the activists who say its good medicine for anything that ails you and that its the super plant that could save the world and all that nonsense will larger just drift off farther and farther into obscurity when it's legalized. When it's legal it will just be another unhealthy vice and our young people will be much more likely to believe us when we tell them about all the harms it can cause rather than just accusing us of feeding them Reefer Madness propaganda like so many of them do today.
you’re thinking from your darkside rather than your commonsense. Of course it being illegal puts all sorts of societal and legal pressures on people, especially young people, not to smoke it. And that does deter some users, alot. Plus, pot has absolutely been proven to be a gateway drug to harder and bigger escapes. So the more we can diminish that, the less chattered lives we will have.
You are dreaming. There is absolutely no proof to support your position. In fact, when you look at the laws in this country and throughout the Western it appears that there is precious little correlation between what laws are in effect and the percentage of people who smoke marijuana. The laws probably deter some people, but only a tiny few. Very few people who don't smoke marijuana now would take it up just because it became legal. There are too many good reasons not to smoke it that have nothing to do with the law.
“Plus, pot has absolutely been proven to be a gateway drug to harder and bigger escapes.”
There is no proof that there is something special about marijuana that makes people want to take other drugs. Most who take other drugs will use marijuana first, but they'll also use alcohol and/or cigarettes first. Go look at the statistics yourself. Look at the 2007 National Household Survey on Drug Use and Health. You can find it here: http://www.oas.samhsa.gov/NSDUH/2k7NSDUH/tabs/TOC.htm Look under the “Miscellaneous Tables” and you will find all sorts of data showing that people who drink or smoke are several times more likely to use hard drugs like cocaine than those who don't.
It's not that using these other drugs causes people to want to go onto the hard stuff. The problem is that when young people hang around the “party crowd” they are much more likely to be exposed to illegal drugs. Those who are so inclined will partake. Marijuana will be the first illegal drug they use because it is so common. It's everywhere, and it is the illegal drug perceived as the least dangerous. Naturally those inclined to go that route people will take it first. The really wild ones, or the really screwed up ones, will go on and take the really hard stuff later when confronted with the opportunity to do so.
Keeping marijuana illegal greatly increases the likelihood that people who smoke it will come into contact with other drugs. More marijuana is consumed in this country than all other illegal drugs combined. It's a massive multibillion dollar business controlled largely by organized crime who in most cases also sell other drugs. Because there is so much marijuana being consumed in this country, thousands of tons a year, because it is easily available everywhere, the existing distribution networks for marijuana make perfect conduits through which to move other drugs. People are buying marijuana from people who sell other drugs. And because marijuana smokers already use one illegal drug, there is no real risk in breaking the other stuff out in front of them and offering it to them to share or to buy. They're already breaking the law. They won't tell on someone who offers them other drugs. Legalize it and sell it from licensed facilities that check ID’s and don't sell other drugs and it will make it much less likely that marijuana smokers will be offered other drugs. Teens will still get marijuana like they get beer today, but they'll be getting it the same way they get their beer today and not from drug dealers who sell other drugs. And because they won't be using an actual “illegal drug” when they smoke marijuana, people will not feel like it is so safe to break the other stuff out in front of them. Marijuana will be much less the gateway drug then.
“So the more we can diminish that, the less chattered lives we will have.”
We aren't diminishing it with the criminal laws against it. Use goes up some years and down other years, but it remains high in this country even though in most states we have fairly harsh laws compared to other Western nations. If the laws deterred so many people, use would be much higher in states that have decriminalized than in those that have not. That is not the case. If the laws were really deterring lots of people, use would be much lower in this country than it is in all those countries where they do not bother pot smokers. That is not the case. I'll go back to the Netherlands again. Like I said before, less than 20% of the Dutch have even tried marijuana compared to more than 40% of Americans even though they've permitted possession and retail sales of marijuana for more than 30 years now. There are several other countries where possession and sometimes even growing a little is allowed, yet in almost every case on a per capita basis use is higher in this country. Are we Americans so weak that we cannot handle as much freedom as people can in other countries? I just don't buy that.
Not a pot smoker so please tell me, why Canadian? Are Canadian latitudes conducive to good pot?
To the Feds: Legalize it. End prohibition and don’t even think of taxing it. Just let it be.
To the Republicans: Realize that if you can not tolerate freedom for others, you can not really tolerate freedom.
This one’s not that nuanced. Don’t over think it. Either you are with the jack booted thugs and the I don’t want others to be free crowd OR you have some fundamental American concepts such as “Live and Let Live”, “Don’t Tread on Me” and “Swim at your own risk” properly internalized.
so what, the Dutch are probably more happy with their alcohol escapes. Your data doesn’t prove at all that if it were strictly illegal their that the usage would not be less.
And you just quote a bunch of stats and qustionable stuff about it not being a gateway drug. I know from experience that it most certainly is and so do alot of other former users. Pot takes you into an escape mode from conscience and that creates a larger seperation from God which gives rise to more of a desire to run from Him...hence greater escape drugs. You can believe whatever you wish, but I know this to be true from experience and I am by far not alone in that.
The Dutch aren't that much different than us, and yes I agree, they probably are happy with their alcohol escapes. Marijuana is not that great. Most people see that. They don't want to be one of the idiots at the party sitting there stoned out of their gourds staring at the TV with the sound turned off. They don't want to be scatterbrained stoners that smoke pot all the time and have difficulty getting things done. There are just so many good reasons not to smoke marijuana. It could never enjoy the same popularity alcohol does.
“Your data doesn’t prove at all that if it were strictly illegal their that the usage would not be less.”
I'm not trying to prove that less people in Holland would be smoking it if it were illegal. In fact, I would not say that if you have a country where no one or hardly anyone smokes pot that legalizing it would not increase use. There are people that would smoke marijuana everywhere if it was available to them. When you already have a lot of people all over your country smoking it though, it is available all over your country. Those inclined to smoke it can and will get it. We are to that point already and have been for a long time. I think most people here inclined to smoke it are already smoking it, or they've been there, done that, and have decided that the negatives outweigh the positives for them.
“Pot takes you into an escape mode...”
I would agree that pot takes people into an escape mode. I also think that if young people still developing get into escape mode and stay there a long time it is hard for them to get out because they don't know any other way to live. I do not believe though that there is anything special about marijuana that makes people want to take other drugs. Escape mode is something people can get into without drugs, if they do things like play video games 24/7 or surf the Net constantly. It doesn't make them want to do things like smoke crack or stick needles in their arms though. I'm not sure what possesses people to do that sort of thing, but it's something they already have inside of them.
I don't like marijuana and I'm not recommending people smoke it. I just think we are doing more harm than good with our laws. Marijuana is already here. It's relatively cheap and it's easily available everywhere. If people want to smoke it bad enough to ignore all the negative aspects of being a pot smoker, they're probably already smoking it. The tiny chance of getting caught and paying a fine or whatever is not deterring many people at all. The stigma marijuana has is not caused so much by the law, it's caused the marijuana. People don't want to be losers, addled potheads. For teens especially, the fact that it is illegal might actually create the opposite of a stigma. Being a little bit of an outlaw is probably pretty darned appealing to rebellious youth.
Trying to keep up this ban does cause us a lot of problems. It is the reason we have Mexicans growing pot in our national forests. No one would be doing that if it was illegal. Because we won't regulate this multibillion dollar industry we are just giving organized crime many billions of dollars to work with. We are contributing to a rift between a large minority of our population and law enforcement, and engendering a general disrespect for the law among these people. We are wasting a fortune. We're taking up valuable prison space. We're making it easier for drug trafficking organizations to sell their really addictive hard stuff by having all the many thousands of tons of marijuana consumed in this country pass through illegal channels creating vast distribution networks they can piggy back other substances through on. We're giving a lot of young people permanent criminal records that will make it more difficult for them to be productive members of society even though most will grow out of their wild stage and leave pot alone.
We could sit and think of so many harms we are causing trying in vain to keep this ban in effect, yet it would be difficult to think of much in the way of good that we are accomplishing. Marijuana is here to stay. The cat is out of the bag. Millions and millions of Americans use it at least every once in a while. It is relatively cheap and easily available everywhere. We've been trying for decades to change that, but we can't. It is time to regulate this entirely unregulated industry. It's time to take all those billions of dollars from organized crime and allow tax paying law abiding citizens to earn it in a legal system where we allow production and distribution and retail sales. We'd have a lot more control over it that way than we do now and we'd save ourselves a lot of headache. I am absolutely convinced that when we do finally legalize it even though we'll have a lot of people panicking, thinking the sky will fall in, that before long we'll be kicking ourselves wondering why we didn't do it a long time ago.
They aren't really. In fact the growing season isn't long enough in a lot of Canada to even grow it. They're growing huge amounts indoors. They're able to control the environment indoors and grow really powerful pot. Over the years indoor growers have bred varieties that have big resinous buds that wouldn't do well outside in the elements. Up in Canada they've been growing all sorts of legal plants indoors for a long time because their climate is not particularly conducive to growing warm weather loving plants outdoors. They were ready to hit the ground running when growing pot indoors became popular. Now they are major marijuana producers. Most of what they produce is smuggled down here to the states. Several times as much Mexican pot is still coming in though. Mexicans grow outdoors and often can get away with growing big fields, so they focus on quantity rather than quality. Their product is dirt cheap, but they sell so much of it they still make a fortune. In Canada they have to do the opposite. Indoor growing under lights is expensive and labor intensive and their growing space is really limited so they try to maximize their profits by growing the most powerful and expensive product they can grow.
I think British Columbia’s ‘temperate rain forest’ climate allows plants to grow crazy (think of how green Oregon and Washington state are).
Additionally, law enforcement has traditionally turned a blind eye so folks grow in their own greenhouses.
That being said, criminals of course can’t resist profits, so there have been awful stories about gangsters moving in and causing trouble.
no, I don’t mean to be rude but your agruments are lousy and don’t make sense. Pot is a hallucinagenic drug and has bad effects on people and is carcenogenic when smoked. At least wine and beer have some positive effects on the body when drunk in small quantities and will not have a mind effect if drunk a little bit. Not so with pot...it is pure escape, period. The mexicans wouldn’t be growing it here if we had better control of our southern border which is actually improving now.
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