Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

War game argues that USAF fleet could be outmatched by Chinese
Flight International ^ | 29/09/08 | Stephen Trimble

Posted on 09/29/2008 5:27:55 AM PDT by sukhoi-30mki

War game argues that USAF fleet could be outmatched by Chinese

By Stephen Trimble

Rand's 90-slide briefing presented in August argues that the US Air Force's fifth-generation fighter fleet could be outmatched by hordes of lesser-skilled Chinese Sukhoi Su-27 pilots in a 2020 battle over the Taiwan Straits. In the Rand war game, China launches an air attack on skies above Taiwan. Using advantages of proximity and sheer numbers, the assault force consists of 72 Su-27 Flankers, 24 in each of three regiments. Operating from Andersen AFB, Guam, the USAF can muster only six Lockheed F-22s in the Taiwan Straits at any time.

As the engagement starts, Chinese Flankers outnumber F-22s by 72 to six. The F-22s are also heavily outgunned in the battle. Three Su-27 regiments carry a total of 912 air-to-air missiles, compared with 48 by six F-22s.

In the end, the simulation optimistically assumes no F-22s are shot down in dogfights, but enough Su-27s break through to wipe out the USAF's tankers. Since the F-22s lack the range to return to a friendly base, they are lost anyway.


TOPICS: Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Japan; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: aerospace; china; f22; wargame
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-4041-6061-80 ... 101-103 next last

1 posted on 09/29/2008 5:27:56 AM PDT by sukhoi-30mki
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: FlingWingFlyer; F15Eagle; Ernest_at_the_Beach; SolidWood; SJackson; Munz; Quix; GOPJ; Alouette; ...

ping


2 posted on 09/29/2008 5:30:16 AM PDT by Perdogg (Vice President Sarah H Palin - Make it happen !!!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: sukhoi-30mki

Flight International? Any relation to the New York Times??


3 posted on 09/29/2008 5:30:33 AM PDT by incredulous joe
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: sukhoi-30mki

Sounds like a banzai attack. We better build about 5000 f-22’s. Quick. Oblahblah will leave us defenseless.


4 posted on 09/29/2008 5:30:42 AM PDT by screaminsunshine
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: sukhoi-30mki

And we have no other assets in the battlespace? Like a carrier, for example?


5 posted on 09/29/2008 5:31:30 AM PDT by Steely Tom (Without the second, the rest are just politicians' BS.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: sukhoi-30mki
Factor in a US Aircraft carrier with 40 SUperhornets and then see what the scenario tells you. In addition, don't forget the Taiwan F-16s and other aircraft that would number a coupole of hundred or so.

This scenario, if it does not factor in those constraints, is wholly unrealistic.

THE RISING SEA DRAGON IN ASIA

6 posted on 09/29/2008 5:31:31 AM PDT by Jeff Head (Freedom is not free...never has been, never will be. (www.dragonsfuryseries.com))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: sukhoi-30mki
I think they better drop that date by a few years.

What is to stop China or Russia/Iran if our economy tanks?

7 posted on 09/29/2008 5:33:21 AM PDT by bayliving (Democrats used to be funny. Now they're just plain dangerous.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Steely Tom
And we have no other assets in the battlespace? Like a carrier, for example?

And all the F-16s and F-15s will have disappeared? Not to mention no F-35s available?

8 posted on 09/29/2008 5:34:07 AM PDT by Skooz (Gabba Gabba we accept you we accept you one of us Gabba Gabba we accept you we accept you one of us)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: sukhoi-30mki

So, they start from the premise that outnumbered, out gunned and out fueled the USAF fighters will lose?...............


9 posted on 09/29/2008 5:34:28 AM PDT by Red Badger (I'm gonna use "Sarah!" from NOW ON since Hillary uses "Hillary!"......)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: screaminsunshine

Too late. The “O” has already entered negoiation with Indonesia to sell the ones the AF now has to help pay for kindergarten lunches in inner city Chicago. After all, who needs airplanes when words and begging works just fine.


10 posted on 09/29/2008 5:37:19 AM PDT by Portcall24
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: sukhoi-30mki
China launches 72 fighters, the Republic of Taiwan Air Force launches their ready group of 16 F16/B's, Taiwan's air defense network lights up, and within 42 minutes later, the F22’s from Guam arrive as well as an additional 96 F16/A-B’s from the Republic of Taiwan Air Force.

Then again, this is 2020, so probably that'd be 16 Joint Force Fighters, with 32 more up in 15, from Taiwan.

I must be missing a lot of things on this one.

11 posted on 09/29/2008 5:38:32 AM PDT by kingu (Party for rent - conservative opinions not required.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: sukhoi-30mki
The ChiCom's have no need to fight US.

We are about to succumb to our internal enemies, move into more spartan homes, eat day old bread, and wear pressed cardboard shoes.

The ChiCom's will be very busy developing Africa as a place to sell their cheap commodities, as we will no longer be able to afford them.

12 posted on 09/29/2008 5:39:44 AM PDT by G.Mason (Duty, Honor, Country)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: sukhoi-30mki
Assymetrical warfare applied to seas. Does anyone really believe that the United States would actually fulfill it's defense treaty obligations to Taiwan? After all China pretty much controls the shots with the ownership of American financial markets.
13 posted on 09/29/2008 5:40:01 AM PDT by buckalfa (confused and bewildered)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: sukhoi-30mki

1. Ten guys with clubs will win out over one man with nine bullets.

2. If we are flying to defend Taiwan, why aren’t the Taiwanese airfields considered friendly to land at? Too many SRBM hits already? Perhaps.

3. The F-22s should fire their AMRAAMs well before they themselves can be engaged. Then with super-cruise, they should be able to RTB without being engaged.

4. You can’t defend Taiwanese airspace with six-aircraft, no matter how good they are. Getting back to #1, if the enemy brings more aircraft than you have missiles it is impossible to stop him.

5. When the first ten SU-27s explode and the rest still don’t have a lock on the F-22s, they may likely turn tail and head home. Unless of course we keep publishing that we will only send six F-22s.


14 posted on 09/29/2008 5:40:58 AM PDT by SampleMan (Community Organizer: What liberals do when they run out of college, before they run out of Marxism.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: sukhoi-30mki
There was a very good documentary on the History channel about three months ago that ran a simulation of this very scenario. It wasn't pretty. Although the F-22s had a fantastic kill ratio, they were overwhelmed by sheer numbers. What are our alternatives:

1. Build more F-22s - this would be nice, but it just isn't going to happen under either administration. They're a great aircraft but too expensive. The Aussies and Israelis want to buy some, which would help lower our costs and keep the production line going, but for some reason they have been turned down.

2. Keep F-15s flying to supplement the F-22s. The F-15s are wearing out and disintigrating on their own and won't last much longer.

3. Supplement with F-16s - might be our only option.

If you've got any ideas, I'm sure the Air Force could use them. They've been pretty screwed up in recent years.

15 posted on 09/29/2008 5:41:13 AM PDT by The Sons of Liberty (Just your average "Whitey" - bitterly clinging to my guns and religion.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Portcall24

No Doubt. I read the book Obama Nation. Looks like the “O” is a communist. Can you believe we are putting one in the White House?


16 posted on 09/29/2008 5:42:05 AM PDT by screaminsunshine
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: sukhoi-30mki

In WW2 we built “jeep” aircraft carriers, why not do the same now?

Have a fleet of cargo ships that are totally normal in appearance, do daily shipping in the area of a conflict but secretly have concealed Harriers, they need not be the expensive F35’s.

Quite frankly if its a situation of quantity vs quality then we need to counter on that level such as developing unmanned attack drones that are superfast and highly maneuverable that can be used to intercept massed formations.

One of my favorite authors Dale Brown has written many novels of such use of technology.


17 posted on 09/29/2008 5:44:23 AM PDT by Daniel Ramsey (Live from Wasilla, Alaska)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: kingu; Jeff Head

The US has refused to sell Taiwan new F-16s-what makes you think they will get F-35s???Besides, the current ROC government is too busy sucking up to Beijing-this wargame is hyperbole because there may not be a Taiwan in 2020-without a shot being fired.


18 posted on 09/29/2008 5:44:57 AM PDT by sukhoi-30mki
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: bayliving

If we go down hard then we take the rest of the world with us. No one there to buy Chinese junk and the petro dollars are greatly reduced for Iran and Russia. Plus, you can forget the investment available for China and Russia.


19 posted on 09/29/2008 5:45:40 AM PDT by misterrob (Obama-Keep the Change!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: kingu
"I must be missing a lot of things on this one."

Seems to me that War Games are based on assumptions and, in this case, these assumptions are predicated on unknowns some 12 years in the future.

20 posted on 09/29/2008 5:45:48 AM PDT by verity ("Lord, what fools we mortals be!")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-4041-6061-80 ... 101-103 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson