Posted on 09/19/2008 2:43:04 PM PDT by xzins
Soldier gets 7 months in deaths of 4 Iraqis Pretrial agreement results in reduction of court’s sentence of 40 years’ confinement
VILSECK, Germany — A Germany-based soldier who testified Thursday that he pulled security while his fellow soldiers killed four Iraqi detainees and "didn’t care" at the time that they would end up dead will spend seven months in prison, for his role in the incident. He also will see his rank reduced to private and receive a dishonorable discharge.
A military judge sentenced Spc. Belmor Ramos to 40 years’ confinement in the 2007 slayings after he pleaded guilty to conspiracy to commit murder, but the sentence was reduced to seven months as part of a pretrial agreement. As part of the agreement, Ramos agreed to testify against other members of his unit.
Ramos, 23, who appeared at a court-martial Thursday, was one of seven soldiers charged with conspiracy to commit premeditated murder stemming from an incident in March or April 2007 in or near Baghdad. Three of them — 1st Sgt. John E. Hatley, 40; Sgt. 1st Class Joseph P. Mayo, 27, and Sgt. Michael P. Leahy Jr., 26 — also are charged with premeditated murder for allegedly shooting four Iraqi detainees in the head and dumping their bodies in a canal.
Ramos had waived his right to a pretrial hearing and pleaded guilty. Under military law, the pretrial agreement is kept secret until the judge sentences the convicted soldier. The soldier then is given the lesser of the two sentences.
On Thursday, Ramos told the court his version of the events when he was serving with Company A, 1st Battalion, 2nd Infantry Regiment (now Company A, 1st Battalion, 18th Infantry Regiment) as a gunner in Hatley’s Humvee.
According to information that came out during the trial, the unit’s patrol was fired upon, and the soldiers detained two Iraqi men who were seen running away from a place where weapons were found. Two more Iraqi men were later detained.
After the Iraqis were detained, Hatley said they would be "taken care of" and asked the men in his Humvee if they were OK with it, Ramos said.
"I said I was cool with it. ... I understood at the time that taking care of them would mean that they would end up dead. I didn’t care," he testified.
The Iraqis were handcuffed with plastic ties, blindfolded and taken to the company’s combat outpost. Ramos said he went to his room and watched a DVD before going on a second patrol to take the Iraqis to a canal where he pulled security.
"Although I didn’t see the shooting, I heard the shots. When (Hatley, Mayo and Leahy) returned from the canal, I assumed (the Iraqis) were dead.… I wanted them dead," he said.
The defense called several 1-18 soldiers as character witnesses during the sentencing phase of the trial who testified that Ramos was respected within his unit despite the incident.
Sgt. Gustavo Pena said he hung out with Ramos in the barracks and would gladly have him in his Bradley fighting vehicle crew. Most members of the battalion knew about the killing of the detainees and Ramos’ involvement, he said.
"Their opinion is that he is a good soldier," he said.
Defense lawyer Capt. Patrick Bryan said Ramos’ guilty plea and demoting him to private would be enough to deter soldiers from emulating his actions.
He said the Army was the best place to rehabilitate him and added that a dishonorable discharge could mean the Chilean-born Ramos would lose U.S. citizenship, which he had gained by virtue of his enlistment.
However, prosecutor Capt. Derrick Grace argued that Ramos’ actions violated the Geneva Conventions and cast a dark shadow on the Army and his unit.
"Soldiers’ decisions on the battlefield should be given great deference, but his isn’t even a close call.
"Even if they were insurgents, they were obviously out of the fight. He should be thankful that his standard of proof and punishment is not being used to judge him," he said.
Judge Lt. Col. Edward O’Brien sentenced Ramos to 40 years’ confinement, reduction to private and a dishonorable discharge.
BIG BUMP!
"Please enjoy our forum, but also please remember to use common courtesy when posting and refrain from posting personal attacks, profanity, vulgarity, threats, racial or religious bigotry,"
This IS a family orientated news forum - most adults can get their points across without needing a vocabulary more suited to 12 year olds. And no, my comments were not "ghaslty" but exactly akin to what I posted above - dubious belief in the criminal innocence of that group of Marines who admit to causing the deaths of unarmed civilians. If the "relatives" are so easily put upon by anyone who doesn't buy their crackpot stories then perhaps they should spend less time on internet forums attempting to ban those who think differently than themselves.
"I appreciate your restraint in staying off the Haditha threads. So let's stick with a good thing and go back to mutual avoidance."
Let me get this straight - you launch an unprovoked attack on someone who has been respecting the rules as laid down by the FR mods on an entirely separate thread, violate them youtself, get called on it and then want to play nice? Yeah, ok. How kind of you. (sarcasm off)
I try again.
Calling someone a murderer is worse than whatever I said about you.
You never presented your accusations, via Time magainze and Congressman Murtha, as a “viewpoint”. You asserted it, over and over and over and over, as fact.
Sorry if I gave the impression of wanting to “play nice”. I was just trying to point out the obvious: we don’t like each other and I was hoping these exchanges bore you as much as they do me.
I never needed to present any “accusations” - Sgt Wuterich took the liberty himself of admitting he and his men killed unarmed civilians.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/03/15/60minutes/main2574973.shtml
Their defense rests solely upon a flimsy “heat of battle” claim. Judging from the evidence that’s been presented, I do not believe them. And I will continue to maintain that their actions, and the sickening story of the soldier featured in this thread, have engendered the lives of many other soldiers and marines serving in Iraq by inciting the populace, strengthening the insurgency and thus making our job of pacifying Iraq all that much harder.
Never post to my account again and I’ll get back to my policy of ignoring yours. Deal?
With pleasure.
If there was any ONE reason to reinstate the draft. Obviously some people can skate through life unscathed, never realizing just how thin the ice is beneath them. I pity them.
And you right about there being nothing “Kantian” there. To follow his judgments to their logical conclusion, this one would be the first to swing from the end of a rope.
You go, GirlFRiend.
I appreciate that relatives of the Haditha and other military prosecutions have a FRiendly venue to share their “crackpot” stories. The full picture of Haditha, (and other cases) has emerged as more information is brought to light. The picture becomes clearer as additional information is provided, whether it’s from family members, lawyers in the cases, or reporters at the hearings/trials. Thanks for making these threads FRiendly to all who want our accused military get the best defense and keeping the light on the facts.
Yep, he would definitely be the first to swing from the end of a rope.
I asked the witch doctor
He told me what to say
Ooo eee,ooo ah ah ping pong
obamalamadingdong
Thank you for clearing that up. I was misintermed. I thought it was "that swings from tree to tree".
Is wiping out on a verbal banana peel a slip of the tongue?
A Barack Obama campaign assistant who goes door to door for the candidate.
I don't care who you are though, that definition is a real knee-slapper. LOL!.
On a serious side: Fred is right when he said everyone is entitled to their opinion, especially on this forum. The problem with some is not so much the opinion but the way it is presented.
To state ones opinion with the intention of being malicious is wrong. Some have posted what seems like malicious intent on threads knowing that the families of accused are presently posting or at least know they will read it at some time, that is vlie IMO. They not only don't belong on those threads but don't belong on this forum, also IMO.
I appreciate the three of you for your continued support of these families, they deserve it.
Yes, that was always the point of "Defend Our Marines". Jaz and I never asserted what we couldn't possibly know: that servicemen accused of crimes are innocent.
At the very least, I'd hope we'd all agree that anyone who serves our country does not deserve a trial by media. Nor does he deserve less of a defense than a civilian would receive.
It was disheartening that, here on Free Republic, there were those who felt differently and relished their contrarian roles as hanging judges, asserting as fact what they couldn't possibly know.
Much of it was just mindless contrarianism. Some of it just perverse meanness and the flame wars could go on for days. Most of the disruptors have long since been banned from Free Republic--which gives you an idea of how much they contributed to the forum. For all I know, they were Democrat trolls.
In any event, we've nearly won, they've already lost, and I'd do it all again in a heartbeat. I know Jaz feels the same way.
I am most concerned with this statement.
I am not sure how many people most members of the batallion comprises, but doesn't that mean, or can the inference be made, that everyone who knew about this incident is complicit in a conspiracy to commit murder?
Absolutely! And an excellent post, Red.
You make a good point and I would agree. I would guess investigators felt they could flip Spc Ramos for his testimony whereas they believed others would tell them to bugger off, that’s just speculation on my part. But as you say, anyone who knew of it and didn’t speak up could be considered part of a conspiracy, I guess.
Better that some things get lost in “the fog of war”.
Agreed, this whole thing should have been lost.
I also happen to think if these kids would stop playing their Gameboys and would watch a few episodes of Law and Order they would have a little more knowledge of the way the Law works. Could save some a lot of heartache and pain. “I want a Lawyer” is just as easy to say as “I did it”, IMO.
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