Posted on 09/15/2008 10:58:51 AM PDT by Kevmo
The Washington Post article is already being commented upon here in Free Republic.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/12/AR2008091202414
The purpose of this thread is to help Freepers and lurkers decide upon what the best mode of self defense would be in the case of the breakdown in social order such as happened with the Rodney King riots.
Joe Brower owns one of the RKBA (Right to Keep and Bear Arms) ping lists. I tried to convince him to open this vanity because he and his friends are more knowledgeable about guns. He says, "there have already been threads on the subject you mention right here on FR, although I can't locate them now. Tell you what -- you start the thread and then ping me, and I'll then flag my RKBA list for comments. I'm sure some folks in that group would be able to provide links, as well as plenty of timely advice. "
This scenario is called the SHTF scenario, where the acronym stands for $#|+ Hits The Fan. So this will be the SHTF gun thread for November 2008... Of course, gun ownership isn't for everyone. But it is the most accessible safety measure under our constitution, which is as our founding fathers intended. Recall where the police were when the Rodney King riots started: they left the scene for their own safety. If that were to happen in your neighborhood, what is your plan?
That assumes of course that their intent is economic gain. But in riot there are other possible intents. The rioters aren't looter guy, although there would be plenty of him as well, taking advantage of the situation.
These people would be angry, and out to get someone, in this case Whitey. Whitey is not in their neighborhood, he's out in the burbs, or worse (for him) in a gentrified section of the inner city, which is much easier for the Boys from the Hood, to get to, since the hood is often adjacent to the inner city. In some cities, Dallas for example, Blacks live on one or two sides of the central city, Hispanics and/or Asians on other sides. (Or Chinese on one side, Vietnamese on another, there are lots of variations.) It can get real sporting at the interfaces.. which is right where the gentrified areas often are.
That is some weird, funny stuff. Some of them are going to report us to the FBI, oh no 8*]
One of them advocated violence against us and his post was removed (#50):
Name removed (0 posts) Tue Sep-16-08 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
50. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
riverdeep (1000+ posts) Tue Sep-16-08 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #50
51. “these things have to be zealously exterminated like the roaches they are”
Isn’t that kind of the same mentality that they’re spewing? Self defense is one thing, but going around killing off people we don’t like, well, history is littered with those results and they aren’t pretty.
In which case we might see cases of drive-by shootings in the suburbs, of random people walking their dogs in the morning.
The warnings were not official, but given informally by friends on the force. If the rioting starts here, the police will be so outgunned they can do little but watch things burn.
Anyone who is down to relying on city employees for food, water, housing or protection is in sad shape. Time to move the family out of there before it get’s out of control.
Check craigslist.org for a new job and safer surroundings.
Good luck
I rely on my own wits which have always served me well. As for the suggestion that I cravenly retreat, I do not share your approach to the matter. But I certainly accept your advice in the spirt in which it was given.
If you are an orphan, I fully understand your actions. However if you are married and/or have children, I don’t see the wisdom in subjecting them to firefights which may last for days to defend a piece of property which has a mortgage and is insured.
Maybe this is due to my experiences in Viet Nam where the men fought, killed and moved on. Not without many painful losses and injuries amongst our own troops though.
Your property and everything on it is replacable, (has a cash value) your loved ones aren’t and never will be. Your friends on the police force are more than subsistance workers. They too have friends and familes, who love and rely on them. I am confident that they gave you their best advice which amounted to, “Don’t cause trouble for yourself or us, please”.
Do what you feel is right.
I apologize for not getting back to you on that question about the Ruger .223 Min-14 Ranch Rifle.
You can't shoot 22 LR through a .223. You have a real need for cheap ammo. I just checked Ammoman, J&G Sales and Cheaper than Dirt for some current prices on the cheapest of each caliber. Unfortunately the only stuff cheaper than the mega-mass produced .223 (AR-15 or Mini-14)at about 30 cents per round (case prices) and 7.62x39(AK-47 or SKS)at about 20 cents per round ammo (case prices) is either .22 mag (also known as .22 WMR) at 20 cents per round or .22 LR at 4 cents per round.
.22 LR can indeed drop human size animals -- if with a brain shot or heart shot (used by Israeli assassins or deer poachers). But self defense situations make an accurate center head shot or heart shot hard to rely on.
Deer poachers and other hunters sometimes us .22 mag (22 WMR) since it has about 1.75 times the velocity and 3 times the energy of a .22 LR of the same bullet weight. BUT .22 mag ammo costs as much as 125 grain AK-47 ammo which has an impact equivalent to a 30-30. The 55 to 68 grain .223 ammo generally costs half again as much as AK-47 ammo -- given that both are equally available (we've had recent shortages where cheap versions of both were not available in case lots).
Outside of the .22 LR, .22 WMR, .223 and 7.62x39 the next cheapest are the other military calibers such as .308 which costs from 30 cents if you can find it to 50 cents per round.
Handgun ammo, OTH, such as 9mm can cost as little as 20 cents per round. Note that a 9mm from a handgun and a .22 magnum from a rifle have about the same energy and, perhaps, stopping power. Note that only the biggest magnum handguns can deliver the stopping power of the .223 -- and both such handguns and the .223 are regarded as barely adequate for hunting larger (northern) deer.
For your SHTF scenario, you want effective stopping power, semi-auto, large capacity magazines (20 or more rounds each), and cheap ammo. That boils down to 9mm handgun, or .223 Mini-14, or an AK-47 (the latter you might not be able to legally get in California). The .223 has a wide variety of ammo available -- from cheap plinking stuff to ammo specifically designed for maximum stopping power but minimum penetration through walls, and some for maximum penetration through windshields). Personally I'd recommend the Ruger Mini-14 if you can't afford an AR-15. You might find an AK-47 for half the price of a Mini-14. In either case, a 9mm handgun would be a good companion for all around carry -- and the situation of using the handgun to fight your way to your long gun.
I should say that a 12 gauge shotgun is great for self-defense -- but the ammo is expensive, you don't get 30-round magazines, and it isn't for plinking.
If you want to go that route, then I heartily recommend a .357 revolver and a .357 lever action rifle. The hotter/faster/heavier .357 loads out of a rifle are serious, hard-hitting loads for deer size animals (150 to 200 lbs or so). Such a rifle is also more politically correct than a semi-auto Mini-14 or AK-47 (both of which are often regarded as evil "assault" rifles). The .357 ammo costs as low as 35 cents per round or 30 cents if you're lucky) Both rifle and revolver could shoot .38 specials too (which cost as low as 25 cents per round -- maybe 20 cents per round if you're lucky).
I was particularly amused by the piquant irony of one DU sociopath who apparently considered it CHILD ABUSE to teach ones own children that "baby killer" is an improper name for those who support killing babies.
I suppose they'll sell you any color you want...as long as it's black, too.
From another similar thread
The Judge is a pretty impressive and versatile self-defense handgun. It appears to be unique.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgnwO0o2ClQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4H5GepjBRsM
5, 10, 15 feet with 000 buck, 4 pellets/ round
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnrDMJvlL4M
Demo gave up on shotgun, went with Judge
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tY3YYDgDUXs
female shooter
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7by3UcLP-M
Also, isn’t the Judge the only handgun that allows washer rounds? Seems like a great compromise gun.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kIuI3heYMQ
To: Ghost of Philip Marlowe; caveat emptor
The best weapon for home defense is a small, pump-action, 12-guage shotgun. You don’t want to use a handgun for home defense. If you have to use it, your adrenaline will be pumping, you’ll be shaking, you will miss your target.
***Perhaps the Judge .410 is a good compromise between handheld rounds and spreading rounds. For inside use, would it have similar stopping power & chance to hit target as a shotgun? For that matter, what about a .38 with snakeshot? Where does one go to see the difference in effect?
To: Peter from Rutland
I suggest a Taurus “Judge” snake pistol. It sends 6 copper disks and 15 BB’s at once. Shoots a 3” 410 load. Revolver will hold 5 rounds.
At a 20 foot range it will cut a cow in half! Great for a hall way defense position!
66 posted on Friday, March 23, 2012 3:56:34 AM by primatreat (I am really tired of “0”s slinging shit toward the middle class.)
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