Posted on 09/15/2008 10:58:51 AM PDT by Kevmo
The Washington Post article is already being commented upon here in Free Republic.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/12/AR2008091202414
The purpose of this thread is to help Freepers and lurkers decide upon what the best mode of self defense would be in the case of the breakdown in social order such as happened with the Rodney King riots.
Joe Brower owns one of the RKBA (Right to Keep and Bear Arms) ping lists. I tried to convince him to open this vanity because he and his friends are more knowledgeable about guns. He says, "there have already been threads on the subject you mention right here on FR, although I can't locate them now. Tell you what -- you start the thread and then ping me, and I'll then flag my RKBA list for comments. I'm sure some folks in that group would be able to provide links, as well as plenty of timely advice. "
This scenario is called the SHTF scenario, where the acronym stands for $#|+ Hits The Fan. So this will be the SHTF gun thread for November 2008... Of course, gun ownership isn't for everyone. But it is the most accessible safety measure under our constitution, which is as our founding fathers intended. Recall where the police were when the Rodney King riots started: they left the scene for their own safety. If that were to happen in your neighborhood, what is your plan?
I don’t disagree with you at all. My kids learned about firearms at a very young age and all the rules you listed were in the frequent discussions. Nevertheless, there are frequently children in our house who may have never had any contact with a gun and I feel a lot better knowing that any child that wanders into my bedroom is not going to get access to my guns. While it is possible for them to open a gun safe, the odds are pretty slim.
He never shot a gun in his life and he is worried about an event that may take place about six weeks from now.
Is he going to be able to put thousands of rounds through a A].40 Sigma, B]a shotgun or C]a .22 rifle in six weeks?
Get a Mossberg 500. The safety is on top, you push it toward the bad guy to shoot.
The Mossberg is great for being around kids. Even if you forgot to lock it up (or don’t, instead gunproofing your kids) you can leave the action closed on an empty chamber. To chamber a round, you need to press a little button behind the trigger guard, rack the slide, and flick off the safety, before it can go BOOM.
If a kid, or a burglar picks it up, here’s what happens.
1. Pull trigger - nothing happens.
2. Flick safety, pull trigger - nothing happens.
3. Rack slide - doesn’t move.
4. Give up.
You: Thumb release, rack slide (burglar wets pants), flick safety, then ready to fire if the burglar is still persisting in threatening life and limb (or is not leaving your house in a conservative state.)
There are a lot of problems with that post.
I hate the thought of a nervous FReeper being hauled into Court for unlawfully defending their family. There’s not enough time left to get really ‘well acquainted with a firearm and learn the rules about what conditions must be met to make an acccceptable shooting.
Kev,
A pistol on your belt in a holster does not require a lock. When the risky days arrive, be ready for this, so you have a means to stop bad guys while you work you way back to your rifle/shotgun.
Get training. Buy ammo. And freepmail me if you want a gun mentor who visits your area often.
I really like the idea of adding a Mossberg 500 but a few years ago I had a quad bypass. I am not embarrassed to admit I am really afraid of ripping my sternum to bits from the recoil. After all it was wired back together. I do know the Dr. would not let me shoot my 30-06 for 2 1/2 years. Am I just being a wimp or should I stay clear of the 12 gauge?
Thanks for the PDF links. I clicked on “Stopping Power”. Below is an interesting excerpt, I like the guy already. However, I thought it was going to be an explanation of the stopping power of various calibers, but instead it’s a play on words — the “stopping power” is the power of the people who own guns to stop tyrannical power.
Here’s the excerpt:
The second thing I’m going to try to explain is why — despite
a barrage of anti-gun propaganda by virtually the entire institutional
establishment in this country — these 70 million American
gun owners are morally, historically, legally, and politically justi-
fied in their choice to be armed.
That is about as far as the National Rifle Association would
take you. I’m going to go farther. I’m going to give reasons why
the other half of the adult population in the United States — the
half who aren’t armed — are the reason this country suffers from
the epidemic of violent crime that it does.
I purchased a Rem 870 Express some years ago for $189. 30" barrell pump with a four shot mag (plug in the mag to make it two for hunting). Interchangeable choke tubes. I had the modified it came with for bird hunting and bought an extra full for turkeys.
A few years ago I bought an 18" barrel with rifle sights for it. Interchangeable chokes, it came with a cylinder bore choke for slugs and buckshot. I got a rifled choke tube for the same purpose. Remove the hunting plug the gun holds five rounds (one in the chamber). With that rifled choke it stays in 5" at 100 yds with the rifle sights. It also patterns buckshot well at 30 yds. Bonus, put the plug back in and the extra full choke and that short, sighted barrel is even better for turkeys. Your mileage may vary.
Well, yes and no. Many firearms are banned by make and model. But it's easy to avoid that by buying a firearm by a manufacturer that is not on THE LIST.
About the only thing that the Kalifornia "assault weapons" ban accomplishes is to inconvenience lawful gun-owners by disallowing pistol grips on semi-automatic magazine-fed center-fire rifles. Any criminal who wanted to have a banned rifle can create one in under a minute by simply adding back the pistol-grip to an otherwise legal rifle.
Anti-gunners are among the most ignorant people on the earth.
I have a 870 police model, but I leave the bird shot for the birds. Bird shot didn’t kill an elderly man with a shot to the face (I’m sure Dick Cheney is glad about that), it won’t take down a 20 year old. Don’t screw around when the SHTF, use .000 buck or slugs/hollowpoint slugs.
bump
I'm surprised that the book you quoted doesn't make more of the fact that .22LR ammunition is so inexpensive, that one could easily have 10,000 rounds for a .22. A really MAJOR disaster might make a person dependent upon hunting small game to feed the family. "Small game" in this context probably would mean the housepets of people no longer living in the area.
I did only by saying that the two cheapest sorts of ammo is either .223 or 7.62x39 (AK-47) with both at about 25 cents per round. I didn't specifically suggest an AK-47 becauase I figured Kevmo couldn't legally get one in California. But a new model Ruger Mini-14 Ranch rifle would satisfy the SHTF scenario (semi-auto and hi-cap mags are available), be relatively cheap to feed with 25 cent .223 ammo, comes with a scope, and would be fun to plink with. I know cuz I have one (older model before they improved it).
Birdshot at distances inside a home would be about the same as buckshot. I keep mine loaded with 00 Buck just in case I ended up outside. At times I have kept mine loaded with #4 buck or magnum BB. Still not sure what the perfect load is. Any load is a bit of a compromise, that is if the distance exceeds 10 feet.
Sorry I misinterpeted.
Regards
ZULU
No, you are NOT being a wimp. I have a friend who was shooting .454 Casulls way too early after his bypass. A shoulder seat belt was still hurting him at the time. He’s still on painkillers and this took place years ago. Take your doctor’s advice on this issue and then bring it down a notch.
Here’s the 2nd book I clicked on from your home page.
It’s close to what I wanted to learn.
Terminal Ballistics as Viewed in a Morgue
Comments by Deadmeat2 (and a few others) found on the SW Forum
Archived on Mouseguns.com July 13, 2006
http://www.commonfolkusingcommonsense.com/files/terminal_ballistics_as_viewed_in_a_morgue.pdf
It’s a good read, being mostly a compilation of a bunch of empirical observations from someone who was a cop and has worked a lot of autopsies in the morgue. He does not have a lot of faith in the .22 to stop BG’s, which I presume to be Bad Guys. Even .38 or 9mm isn’t much in terms of stopping power, because he saw a lot of multiple hits on the gangbangers that proved they were still causing trouble after getting hit. He thinks the .44 or .45 round is the best, with single-stop capability.
He does think that hollow points cause a lot of damage. They tend to expend their energy inside the body rather than passing through it. He also thought that .357’s caused more damage than regular .38’s, probably due to the higher speed generated by magnum loads. He doesn’t talk much about shotgun wounds.
The physics behind this is probably the kinetic energy equation, 1/2 * m * V^2 , where the two important quantities are mass and velocity. A high powered rifle increases the velocity by adding more powder to the charge. A larger caliber increases the mass of the bullet.
The thing about shotguns is their range is only good to about 70 yards or so, though most bad guys don’t know that. And of course, if you have slugs loaded, they go much further. I don’t know how the shotgun pellets figure in any mass equations. It’s like a whole bunch of little 1/2mV^2 running around, causing individual path damages. From short range, devastating.
So, what about a .38 revolver with plenty of snake shot and speed loader rounds with regular bullets, maybe even with .357 magnum loads and frangible or hollowpoint bullets? I dunno. But the article was a good glimpse of what happens.
Maybe a bullet proof vest would be a good thing to consider as well.
“Small game” in this context probably would mean the housepets of people no longer living in the area.
***Interesting take.
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