Coroner: Cyanide Poisoning Victim Killed Himself

7NEWS (Denver, CO) ^ | August 20, 2008

[LukeL]

speculating. I am studying geology as my major in college and might pick that book up. In any case, can you by pure sodium cyanide in a store? Or is is mixed with inert ingredients? Of course the reporter may have gotten the details wrong.

[Gondring]

So let's see if I got this right.

   Hehe...nope, you're WAY off!

He flew - or worse yet drove, hundreds, maybe 1000+ miles from Canada to Denver

   No. He went from Ottawa to Montréal, and then rode a bus from there to Denver.

bought this atypical "rat poison"

   Better worded as "typical suicide poison"

then put himself up at a "luxury hotel", though his family says he had no money,

   Ever heard "you can't take it with you"...? If you check out of life before checking out of the hotel, you don't pay the bill.

   Besides, it's possible he was squatting, either on his own, or perhaps family worked there?

2 blocks from the DNC convention

   Two MILES from the DNC convention...in fact, across the river! With lots of hotels closer.

   In other words, near where he had family.

all in an attempt to suicide? Is that what you're saying?

Color me skeptical.

Yes, I'm highly skeptical of the tinfoil claims. That a terrorist organization is relying on known psychotic people as their operatives, equipping them with pretty poor means of inflicting damage to us, sending them to a city where they have relatives whom they call, and then their operative decides to mix up a drink of NaCN + H2O and quaff it.

Wow, the terrorists are desperate...not only desperate in recruiting, but desperate to make it look like a suicide!

Perhaps he was delusional and acting alone and then decided to just kill himself, but there's really no reason to invoke anything oddball...a depressed schizophrenic proceeds directly to suicide all too easily without melodramatic flourishes in the narrative.

BTW, have you ever bought cyanide? I have, and it's not difficult.

[tanuki]

Yours is the most plausible scenario I can see. To work on it a bit, Dirie may have thought he was a drug courier and possibly had an addiction himself. Someone told him the stuff was meth or coke and to deliver it to such and such place to such and such person. Suddenly, he felt the urge to ‘test’ the product and didn’t think anyone would notice. Big mistake.

[Gondring]

speculating.

Well, it's used in jewelry business, computer contact gold reclamation, etc. I have firsthand knowledge with purchasing it, and 500g is not a lot (though for ore extraction, with efficient recovery systems, etc., that should work for a good ton of gold ore. But I'm talking about less-efficient, non-industrial use.)

I am studying geology as my major in college and might pick that book up.

Great! Sarah Andrews has some great insights about the unique mindset of a geologist--check out her website and the white papers there: "The Mind of a Geologist"

An Eye for Gold is actually pretty far along in the Em Hansen series of books...so I'd recommend starting on an earlier one in the series so you don't ruin it if you like them(Tensleep is the first one; it's out of print but used copies are available on Amazon.com).

BTW, I attended a talk that Sarah Andrews gave, regarding toxins in geology, during the October 2007 meeting of the Geological Society of America annual meeting in Denver.

In any case, can you by pure sodium cyanide in a store? Or is is mixed with inert ingredients?

I think I have shown enough about the ease of obtaining it.

But yes, you can easily get technical grade or even analytical grade, as I posted above. No fillers. I'll FReepmail more details, rather than just posting in open.

Of course the reporter may have gotten the details wrong.

Yes, they did. By saying, "the crystal form," they blew it. Sodium cyanide is one cyanide salt of several. Potassium cyanide is, also, for example.

[cricket]

. . .and there was a ‘Do Not Disturb’ sign on his door?

[Gondring]

Was there?!?

[tet68]

One of the Cyanides is used by the state of California
in the gas chamber, it is dropped into an acid to create a
gas as I recall.

[Gondring]

yes...the salts react with acid to form HCN (hydrogen cyanide) gas.

[Gondring]

LOL

Why is that more plausible than a depressed schizophrenic committing suicide, like so many do?

[Gondring]

With all respect to Dave Conibear, I think that his suicide note might help clear up the idea that cyanide suicides are unheard of. I hesitate to repost it here, but it is available online, along with his obituary. Though I admit that it doesn't seem like 16 years ago...

Anyone who still doubts can FReepmail me.

From: conibear@sol.carleton.ca (Dave Conibear)
Subject: Here we go...
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 17:19:19 GMT

[...]  Listen up, because this is the closest thing to
A Note that I'm going to write.

After a lot of research and a lot more thought, I've gone with the KCN
dissolved in cold water.  I'm not quite sure about the volume of 1.5g
of KCN, so I'm erring on the high side.  Yes, I know I'm subject to
"throat irritation" if I do that... sometimes, ya just gotta live on
the edge.  :)

I'm expecting unconsciousness after about 1 minute.  I've skipped all
meals for the past 24 hours to make sure I've got a nice acidic
stomach (HCl + KCN -> KCl + HCN(g), I hope), and when my stomach
started rumbling embarrassingly, I quaffed a grapefruit juice (most
acidic thing I could think of offhand).

I'll be going with the "plastic bag and rubber band" backup system...
a nice big garbage bag, so I won't be uncomfortable for that minute of
consciousness.

The computer is programmed to wait 36 hours and then phone 911, to
prevent any of my friends discovering the body.  This news message is
also on a delay timer [...]

Have a nice life!

Dave

[grey_whiskers]

Sounds like a "here, hold my jihad manual" moment.

Cheers!

[Gondring]

ping

[Verbosus]

“Just a question, are there any restrictions on buying it?”

I’m curious about that myself.

[Gondring]

Many suppliers will sell only to companies, but you can get it from other sources (often at a huge markup), too. See this. I know it's not a great source (CNN), but it reports easy it is to get. Still, I found that since 9/11, it's a lot more of a pain and lots more costly to get. :-( Fortunately, I haven't had any need for it recently.

[Deaf Smith]

" and the decedent was positive for ingesting cyanide."

Shouldn't have had the fried chicken...finger lick'n good. /sarc?

As Ed Norton (The Honeymooners) would say: "In my line of work (NYC sewer worker) you don't want a lunch that you have to eat with your hands."

[magslinger]

Tinfoil hats don't stop government rays.

Or maybe that's just what they want you to think.

[darth]

The Denver PD is pushing BS. You CANNOT BUY sodium cyanide without a legit purpose, and you must sign appropriate forms per Homeland Security regs. For example, you have to PROVE that you have a business that uses cyanide on a regular basis. Oh yeah, and if you have a muslim name, the chemical supply house will be EXTRA CAUTIOUS. I know because I purchase CN for my business and had to go through the security process.

[UCANSEE2]

Good work. I like your concept better. It is much more plausible.

I still think that the depressed terrorist who chickens out is the most plausible.

But, a good investigator should consider all options.

[fanfan]

[UCANSEE2]

“you have to PROVE that you have a business that uses cyanide on a regular basis.”

All you have to have is a cousin who works there.