Posted on 08/20/2008 7:12:04 AM PDT by T-Bird45
OSBI agents went to gun dealers and pawnshops to create a list of .40-caliber Glock owners.
WELEETKA (OK) — Authorities working to narrow their leads in the June 8 shooting deaths of two girls used old-fashioned legwork to come up with a list of area gun owners with .40-caliber pistols, one of two weapons used in the slayings.Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation agents knew the caliber of the guns used in the killings, so they merely checked with area gun dealers and pawnshops to determine who had bought or recently pawned .40-caliber Glocks.
"It's a typical procedure of any investigation" involving a gun, according to Jessica Brown, spokeswoman for the OSBI. That time-consuming procedure yielded the OSBI the names of more than 60 owners of .40-caliber guns in the Weleetka area.
Consequently, the OSBI sent letters to all those gun owners, asking them to voluntarily submit their weapons for test firings over the weekend at the Okfuskee County Courthouse at Okemah. About 40 of those gun owners showed up on Saturday and Sunday, and their weapons were fired once or twice and then returned to them.
The fired bullets and shell casings, meanwhile, were sent to a crime lab for analysis to determine if any of them match those used in the slayings of Skyla Jade Whitaker, 11, and Taylor Paschal-Placker, 13.
Brown said about five of the gun owners no longer owned the weapons, but they provided the names of the new owners. The other 15 or so gun owners who did not show up will be checked by the OSBI to see why they didn't volunteer for the test firings.
"They can have any number of reasons" for not volunteering, Brown said. "They could be against it, they could be anti-government, or they eventually may want to help." Because the test firing of the weapons is voluntary, Brown said there isn't any constitutional violations involved.
"It's a process of elimination," she said, noting that the tested weapons may have been loaned out by the owners or someone else may have had access to the guns.
On Monday, when the OSBI announced that it had test-fired weapons, it stated in its press release that it had sent letters to the "registered gun owners." That prompted concern Tuesday among many in the public, who noted that Oklahoma does not have a gun-registry law nor a central database of gun owners.
Tom Harris, an agent with the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) in Tulsa, confirmed that. According to Harris, most states, including Oklahoma, and the federal government do not have lists of registered gun owners.
He said the only way to get a listing of gun owners is by canvassing gun dealers or pawnshops individually to find out who bought weapons — as the OSBI did. Harris said gun dealers — "federal firearms licensees" — have to fill out ATF form 4473 whenever a weapon is purchased. The form lists the buyer, the address and other pertinent information.
They also have to contact the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) to determine whether the prospective buyer can legally purchase a weapon. Harris said the 4473 forms stay with the gun dealers and are not submitted to any government agency. They are, however, available to law enforcement. If a gun dealer goes out of business, the 4473 forms are stored in an ATF warehouse, he said.
Although the OSBI made public that a .40-caliber weapon was used in the slayings, it is not identifying the caliber of the other gun used. Brown would not say whether voluntary test firings would be held for the other weapon.
Authorities believe the killers are from the Weleetka area, given the remote location of the girls' slayings. They said the killers had to be familiar with the area — N. 3890 Road (County Line Road) north of Coleman Road, about four miles northeast of Weleetka.
Skyla was visiting Taylor at her home when they decided to go for a walk that Sunday afternoon. They walked north from Taylor's home along County Line Road to the Bad Creek bridge, a half-mile away.
Investigators said the two had made it to the bridge and were returning to Taylor's home when they were gunned down. Their bodies were found in a shallow roadside ditch, less than 1,000 feet from the Placker home. They were found about 30 minutes after they had left for the walk.
Autopsy reports on the girls showed they had been shot a total of 13 times. Skyla, the youngest, was shot eight times, and she suffered the most .40-caliber bullet wounds. Authorities noted that each of the girls was shot with two weapons. The medical examiner recovered spent bullets from their bodies and described them as small- and medium-sized.
That's the way law was practiced in Europe for a long time - the state makes an accusation against someone and if they can't prove their innocence they are guilty. The burden of proof is entirely on the accused, and not the prosecution. A very handy tool for dictators and totalitarian kings. Russia filled up the gulags with this little trick.
You know, sometimes when I run across people like you, I wonder about what the country would be like if a Josef Stalin were to be elected president.
The country would divide like Russia did. Dissidents, and bureaucrats.
I bet you’d find a fine job in the Justice Department and be pretty damn impressed with yourself and how efficiently you could keep order with unlimited police powers.
Did you read what was written? Nothing written said or even implied that everyone was guilty until they prove their innocence. You are putting up a strawman then arguing against it.
Except if a guy from out of state with the Beemer is the guilty party. . .you won’t find him.
Search PUBLIC records all you want. Private records are another thing entirely. . .
In your extremist fantasy land I am sure you run across all sorts of villians. All you need is to see is one item that sets you off into a frenzy so you can rant on and on about big gubmint, statism and abuse.
Ciao...
Try telling that the the police when they demand you come down and let them 'investigate' your handgun! LOL.
Why don't you demand proof behind the cops' assumption that anyone who bought a 40cal gun in that locale is a suspect for the crime?
Go ahead, shoot yourself in the foot again. I luv it.
Exactly...in yesterdays discussion there was at least one person who seemed to think that wasn’t the case. In fact its common practice for the ATF to photocopy 4473s for non-PC weapons. Those go back to the office and Im sure into a larger (illegal) database.
One note...I thought 4473 inspection was limited to the ATF. I didnt think it was OK for local/state LE to look at them w/o the ATF sign-off.
Maybe not. Should that possibility be the reason why you don’t look at BMW owners though? If all they are going to do is look at BMW owners then the investigation is shoddy.
Would you still sue if it were your little girls that had been murdered?
That’s what I thought.
That’s the whole point. It narrows the pool of suspects. While the owners have every right to refuse, the cops also have every right to ask for voluntary co-operation.
For myself, I’m conflicted about what I would do if placed in this situation. You want to see a killer brought to justice, but why should owning a gun make you a suspect?
It’s called police work, genius.
Glocks leave a distinct impression on the shell casing. Don’t make the leap to Stalin-esque secret police proceedings.
If it were your kids that were murdered, would you feel the same way?
Get off your high horse and get your head out of your arse.
But I don’t have to without a warrant. They can ask, I don’t have to comply. They can look at me all they want but without that court order they have nothing. I have never said that a person should waive their rights or be denied them.
It’s called an investigation. Are you paranoid or just dumb?
Quick, run to the window! The black helicopters are landing in your yard!
Would you be “conflicted” if you were the parents of one of those kids?
Carolyn
Your point, though subtly made, is a good one. A ballistic non-match doesn’t really exclude anything when the weapon in question is a pistol. It is too easy to swap out a barrel.
What if:
-Someone stole my gun, used it for the killing, and put it back in my car?
-Bullets fired from my gun are ‘identical enough’?
-What if the evidence gets mixed up and I fry because of it?
-What if the a detective thinks I did it, and messes with the evidence?
Here’s a GREAT video about why you should never talk to the cops by a University professor. There is a part II as well:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik&feature=related
Yes. I read what was written, and comprehended it.. Did you?
This says that if I bought a 40cal legally and am on that list, then I am a SUSPECT with the burden to take action to convince the government that I did not murder someone.
No thanks. I am not a murderer. And I do not want my name to be Richard Jewell.
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