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Deserter may fare worse because of flight
News Observer ^ | 8/17/2008 | By Jay Price, Staff Writer

Posted on 08/17/2008 11:12:36 AM PDT by Doctor Raoul

Deserter may fare worse because of flight

Former 82nd Airborne Division paratrooper Jeremy Hinzman has been ordered out of Canada

By Jay Price, Staff Writer


A deserter from Fort Bragg who was ordered deported from Canada last week would probably have gotten a lighter punishment if he had simply stayed in the United States and quietly turned himself in, Army statistics suggest.

Former 82nd Airborne Division paratrooper Jeremy Hinzman, 29, and his supporters in the United States and Canada think he'll be court-martialed for desertion if he is forced to return, in part because he fled to Canada and in part because he has been outspoken about his case and his opposition to the war in Iraq. The Canada Border Services Agency ruled Wednesday that Hinzman, his wife and two young children would have to leave by Sept. 23.

A simple definition of "deserter" is a service member who has been absent without leave for more than 30 days. The military doesn't usually hunt them, but civilian authorities pick up some during routine traffic stops or arrests for civilian crimes, and hand them over to the military.

Deserters who remain in the United States and turn themselves in quietly are seldom prosecuted for the offense. Instead, many are given administrative penalties, including one of various types of discharge that make it more difficult to get a civilian job. Others return to duty with punishments such as loss of rank.

The number of deserters dipped as the Iraq war began and then rose again, from about 2,650 in the fiscal year ending Sept. 30, 2005, to a little less than 4,700 last fiscal year. But in 2007, just 108 were convicted of desertion. That is a typical figure since the war began.

The act of turning yourself in can prevent prosecution for desertion because it's obvious proof you have returned, said Chuck Fager, director of Quaker House, a Fayetteville group that for decades has counselled troops who want to leave the military or who have left it.

"When someone comes back voluntarily, even years later, they almost always aren't prosecuted for desertion," Fager said.

Fager counselled Hinzman before he deserted and has continued to talk to him regularly about his situation.

"Our preference would have been for him to turn himself in, but we don't advise people what to do," Fager said. "We can tell them what has happened to others in the same situation."

No killing

Hinzman, speaking in a telephone interview from Canada, said he probably would have been prosecuted in any case because he has firm convictions about war and killing, and would have spoken out regardless of which means he'd chosen to leave the Army.

"I'd happily go to jail rather than shoot innocent Iraqis or kill anyone," he said, adding that he believes the Iraq war is wrong.

It was after training that he realized he couldn't kill, Hinzman said. He applied for conscientious objector status before his unit was sent to Afghanistan, and he was allowed to stay in the United States while his request was considered.

He said that he would have had no problem going into combat, as long as he didn't have to kill. In the application, Hinzman said, he offered to serve in a front-line unit as a medic.

When his application was denied and his unit ordered to Iraq in 2003, he decided to desert. He, his wife and their young son arrived in Canada in January 2004, where they officially sought refugee status. They added a baby girl to the family a few weeks ago.

Canada has proved less hospitable to modern deserters than it was to American draft dodgers and deserters who fled north during the Vietnam War. Hinzman's application to stay was rejected by the country's Supreme Court, and then came the border agency's decision. There is still a chance the Canadian government will let them stay, Hinzman said, but otherwise he likely will be handed over to U.S. civilian authorities and taken back to Fort Bragg for court-martial.

Consequences vary

Most who desert do so for reasons other than conscience or politics, said Lt. Col. Anne Edgecomb, an Army spokeswoman at the Pentagon. More common causes are personal, family or financial issues.

Deserters are typically junior enlisted soldiers; about three-quarters are in their first term of service.

The maximum sentence for desertion during wartime is death, though no one has received that sentence for desertion during the current wars, and it isn't likely when desertion is the only offense, Edgecomb wrote in an e-mail response to questions about desertion.

Punishment can vary greatly from case to case because commanders have broad discretion, Fager said. He said one soldier with a high-powered attorney was somehow out of the Army in just two weeks with a good discharge on his record. In other cases, troops get harsh punishment for no discernable reason. "It's always very difficult to say what will happen in any given case," he said.

A frequent outcome is "discharge in lieu of court-martial," in which the military boots out the GI with a blotch on his record in return for dropping charges.

Even that, though, isn't a minor penalty, he said. "So they come out with the equivalent of a prison record without ever having gotten their day in court," he said. "Then we get all these calls, like 'How do I get rid of this discharge?' "

jay.price@newsobserver.com or (919) 829-4526


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: coward; deserter; hinzman; whocares; woeasme

1 posted on 08/17/2008 11:12:36 AM PDT by Doctor Raoul
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To: Doctor Raoul

Call the waaahmbulance. If didn’t want to “kill”, he should’ve applied to be a Medic. Yellowbelly.


2 posted on 08/17/2008 11:24:33 AM PDT by MuttTheHoople
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To: MuttTheHoople
If didn’t want to “kill”, he should’ve applied to be a Medic.

He did. Read the article.

I'm not defending this creep. Every Corpsman I ever saw was issued a rifle and had to meet the Marine Corps markshmanship requirements. They were also expected to kill if that became necessary.

It sounds to me that this slug is just a garden variety coward who know wants to keep all those GI benefits and not have to live up to his end of the bargain.

L

3 posted on 08/17/2008 11:29:08 AM PDT by Lurker (Islam is an insane death cult. Any other aspects are PR to get them within throat-cutting range.)
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To: Doctor Raoul
He said that he would have had no problem going into combat, as long as he didn't have to kill.

"Hey Sarge, I've been meaning to tell you. I don't mind being here, but I don't wanna kill anyone. OK?"

4 posted on 08/17/2008 12:05:02 PM PDT by theDentist (Qwerty ergo typo : I type, therefore I misspelll.)
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To: Lurker
Being a medic is not necessarily a sign of cowardice. My Uncle Richard was a medic in Darby's Rangers, and only missed D-Day because of a direct order by Darby to stay in England to tend to a very sick Ranger.
5 posted on 08/17/2008 12:06:29 PM PDT by GAB-1955 (Kicking and Screaming into the Kingdom of Heaven!)
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To: GAB-1955
Being a medic is not necessarily a sign of cowardice

I certainly didn't mean to imply that it was. More than just a few medics and Corpsmen have been awarded the Medal of Honor for their bravery under fire.

I hold their service in the highest regard. Suffice it to say that when I've found myself in their company they don't have to buy many drinks.

However I don't think that's the situation in this case. I think this puke is a garden variety coward who is more concerned with his own worthless skin.

Sorry if I gave any other impression.

L

6 posted on 08/17/2008 12:15:00 PM PDT by Lurker (Islam is an insane death cult. Any other aspects are PR to get them within throat-cutting range.)
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To: GAB-1955

Medics certainly aren’t cowards, and note that they rejected this punk’s application to join the mecics. He’ll probably end up with no jail time and a less-than-honorable discharge. He deserves a few years in stir and a dishonorable discharge to follow him around for the rest of his life.

I wonder how he supported himself in Canada? Charity? Handouts from leftie groups? I doubt if he had a job.


7 posted on 08/17/2008 12:15:32 PM PDT by ozzymandus
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To: Lurker
Every Corpsman I ever saw was issued a rifle..

I have a good friend who declared himself a CO during boot camp. He choose to be a Medic rather than try to get out of his duty to serve his country. He refused to carry a rifle while in Vietnam.

He earned a Silver Star and a Purple Heart for his actions in his last battle. Despite have a sucking chest wound, he refused to be evacuated until all his wounded buddies were flown out. Today, he is still a flaming left wing nut but one of the nicest guys you could ever want to know.

8 posted on 08/17/2008 12:16:15 PM PDT by Jeff Gordon ("An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile hoping it will eat him last." Churchill)
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To: Doctor Raoul
Former 82nd Airborne Division paratrooper Jeremy Hinzman, 29, and his supporters in the United States and Canada think he'll be court-martialed for desertion if he is forced to return, in part because he fled to Canada and in part because he has been outspoken about his case and his opposition to the war in Iraq.

I would throw the book at him too. What he did was bad for morale and shows a blatant contempt for the rule of law.

There is no room for "civil disobedience" in an all-volunteer Army.

9 posted on 08/17/2008 12:16:15 PM PDT by bornred
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To: GAB-1955
Being a medic is not necessarily a sign of cowardice. My Uncle Richard was a medic in Darby's Rangers, and only missed D-Day because of a direct order by Darby to stay in England to tend to a very sick Ranger.

Walking into combat with the intent to save the lives of your comrades while exposing oneself to fire is quite possibly one of the most courageous actions one could take.

Obviously this fellow didn't have close to what it takes.

However the penalty should fit the crime.

I have little doubt your uncle kept busy saving the lives of D-Day casualties following the landing. IMHO, I'd want to keep enough medics on the field to help the soldiers, but also have them intact and ready for evac'd wounded.

10 posted on 08/17/2008 12:19:47 PM PDT by Caipirabob (Communists... Socialists... Democrats...Traitors... Who can tell the difference?)
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To: Lurker

I was a medic in the Air Force and shot expert, earning an expert markmanship ribbon. Never saw comabat and therefore I was not issued an M-16.

But I know how to use it!


11 posted on 08/17/2008 12:42:10 PM PDT by tpanther (The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing-----Edmund Burke)
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To: tpanther
But I know how to use it!

If you don't have one, I'd recommend you pick up an AR-15 and make sure you can still qualify as Expert.

The Unorganized Militia can use all the trained riflemen (and riflewomen) we can get.

L

12 posted on 08/17/2008 12:44:20 PM PDT by Lurker (Islam is an insane death cult. Any other aspects are PR to get them within throat-cutting range.)
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To: Doctor Raoul
They should be executed not let off lightly with a discharge. People who betray the country aren't fit to breathe its air!

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

13 posted on 08/17/2008 12:49:08 PM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: Doctor Raoul
A frequent outcome is "discharge in lieu of court-martial," in which the military boots out the GI with a blotch on his record in return for dropping charges. Even that, though, isn't a minor penalty, he said. "So they come out with the equivalent of a prison record without ever having gotten their day in court," he said. "Then we get all these calls, like 'How do I get rid of this discharge?' " [emphasis added]

Oh, whine! In civilian life that's taking a plea bargain or entering into a diversion program. Civilian or Military, you had your chance at your day in court but because everyone and his brother can see you are guilty and the likely outcome was the full penalty under law, you chose to cut your losses.

14 posted on 08/17/2008 1:04:49 PM PDT by NonValueAdded (College kid: "Do you have a minute for Obama?" NVA: "Not now or ever.")
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To: Doctor Raoul
No one made this punk enlist. Take your punishment like a man and redeem some of that honor you pissed on!

As a veteran, this type of behavior coming from another uniformed soldier is even more vile than those leftist, limp-wristed pinkos in the anti-war protests. These wannabe soldiers make me sick!

15 posted on 08/17/2008 1:05:27 PM PDT by DesertSapper (God, Family, Country . . . . . . . . . . and dead terrorists!!!)
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To: GAB-1955
Ditto. My grandfather was a decorated WWII Staff Sergeant medic who received multiple bronze stars and a purple heart for his honorable duty putting his life on the line repeatedly while tending to other troops fighting the Japanese in IndoChina. He drove the LEAD vehicle on the first convoy through the mountains from Burma to Kunming, China. By no means is a medic any less of a soldier than the others.

This deserter is a low-life coward deserving nothing but contempt.

16 posted on 08/17/2008 1:14:42 PM PDT by DesertSapper (God, Family, Country . . . . . . . . . . and dead terrorists!!!)
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To: ozzymandus
ozzymandus wrote:
"I wonder how he supported himself in Canada?"

He was working as a bicycle courier.

Probably he was also being subsidized by Vietnam era draft dodgers. His lawyer was one.

17 posted on 08/17/2008 1:27:51 PM PDT by Clive
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To: Doctor Raoul; exg; Alberta's Child; albertabound; AntiKev; backhoe; Byron_the_Aussie; ...

-


18 posted on 08/17/2008 1:33:56 PM PDT by Clive
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To: Clive; GMMAC; exg; kanawa; conniew; backhoe; -YYZ-; Former Proud Canadian; Squawk 8888; ...

19 posted on 08/18/2008 5:45:12 AM PDT by fanfan (SCC:Canadians have constitutional protection to all opinions, as long as they are based on the facts)
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