Judge says UC can deny class credit to Christian school students

San Francisco Chronicle ^ | 8/12/8 | Bob Egelko

[TheBattman]

If the text leaves it out, then the university is RIGHT to reject the school’s qualification.

Even if the student is capable of successfully doing the work?

What is your definition of "fully cover"?

[ASA Vet]

Doc Coyoteman and others here have wasted their time explaining what a scientific theory is a hundred times.
The deliberately ignorant aren't about to learn.

[Mr Rogers]

I agree a reasonable solution would be to allow students to test for the knowledge. I got a BS in Biology back before much evolution occurred, and never thought it particularly useful. I agree many evolutionists are quite as dogmatic as the creationists.

However, a school needs accreditation to have its coursework accepted. If they are teaching Biology & only present the creationist side of things, they are wrong and their coursework should not be accepted. My opinions of evolution aside, it is used as a unifying theory for Biology and cannot be ignored (or have straw men erected for easy shoot-down) by a credible school.

[Coyoteman]

If the Left cannot concede that the “Theory of Evolution” is, in actuality, a THEORY, then there is nothing left to discuss. If, however, the left does acknowledge that a “theory” is a theory, then it must accept that it has not been successfully subjected to a scientific proof. Therefore, there is plenty of room for disagreement.

1. It is not a matter of left vs. right. There are plenty of us conservatives who accept the evidence supporting the theory of evolution.

2. You are unaware of the usage of the term "theory" in science. A theory is not a guess or a hunch. It is the current best explanation for a set of facts. A theory has been tested over and over, and passed all of those tests. When it started as an hypothesis it probably had to compete against other hypotheses. But through all the testing and "critical thinking" (scientists were doing this long before IDers got the idea), the hypothesis emerged as a theory. Another aspect of a scientific theory is that it is able to make predictions. The theory of evolution does that.

There is no such thing as "scientific proof" which can be applied to a scientific theory to bring it to a higher level. A theory is as high as you get in science.

(If you are thinking that laws are higher you are wrong. Laws are very limited in scope, and often can be expressed in mathematical terms. Theories explain laws!)

I hope this helps. For a long list of definitions of how various terms are used in science, see my FR home page.

[Rudder]

The deliberately ignorant aren't about to learn.

And I'm a slow learner, too. You'd think after all the crevo posts I've struggled through, I'd learn my lesson, but...no. In fact, the more I think about it, I guess I got nothing more more to say to these "junior science buffs."

[rdl6989]

I’m speechless. This is just unbelievable.

[Cacique]

btt

[narses]

In the US judges decided that women can kill their children from conception to birth. Why would this be a surprise?

[Raycpa]

So then, once science declares an explanation is a theory, the theory never changes?

[Marysecretary]

Exactly. We’ve had a Christian school in our church for 25 years and I’m sure they teach the theory of evolution alongside creationism. Our kids have gone on to college (one went to MIT) and done well.

[Coyoteman]

So then, once science declares an explanation is a theory, the theory never changes?

From my post above:

A theory is not a guess or a hunch. It is the current best explanation for a set of facts.

It is religious dogma that resists change in the face of contradictory facts, not scientific theory.

Example: the purported global flood ca. 4350 years ago.

[Marysecretary]

Most Christian schools teach both creationism and evolution. Gotta know the facts so you can dispute them, ya know.

[Raycpa]

In short, your answer is a theory can change?

[Coyoteman]

In short, your answer is a theory can change?

Yes. Make of it what you will.

[DeweyCA]

In my experience of tutoring Korean students who are getting almost all “A”s in AP courses in a couple of the best public high schools in CA and also at USC and UC-Irvine, “critical thinking” is employed by teachers only to teach their students to think critically/skeptically about their parents’ traditional beliefs.

[LiteKeeper]

INTREP - This is just not right. Maybe he ought to check the percentage of quotes from the Bible that the writers of the Constitution cited: 34% of the quotes were directly, or indirectly, from the Bible.

[LoneRangerMassachusetts]

Most Christian schools teach both creationism and evolution. Gotta know the facts so you can dispute them, ya know.

OK wise ass. What are the specific facts you disputing. All I saw is what the article said. You know more?

"Otero's ruling Friday, which focused on specific courses and texts, followed his decision in March that found no anti-religious bias in the university's system of reviewing high school classes."

[markomalley]

Unfortunately, the MSM generally gets this type of stuff wrong...and one MSM report feeds on another, so I try to go back to the source to see what actually happened. The actual opinion of the court hasn't been published on the court's website yet, so it's a little difficult to do so now. But I don't automatically accept what was written in the MSM as gospel. Some questions:

• Was the school, Calvary Chapel Christian School of Murietta, CA, regionally accredited or not? (I looked, the answer was "yes") Had the answer been "no," then the University would have been right.
• Were the students denied admission or were they denied college credit for the HS classes? (According to the LA Times article on the same subject, two of the five students in question were admitted and are currently attending UC-Riverside and given credit for other classes they took)
• Was this an issue of admission to the institution or was this an issue of giving credit for coursework already accomplished?
  • The LA Times article states, "In documents presented in the case, UC representatives pointed out that the university has certified more than 50 other courses at Calvary Christian as meeting UC's admission standards. UC said that it accepts courses from hundreds of schools affiliated with various faiths and that courses from Christian schools are approved at the same rate as those submitted by others."
  • It goes on to say, "The university said it had rejected, for example, an English class at Calvary Christian called "Christianity and Morality in American Literature" in part because students read excerpts from a literature anthology without having to read at least some complete books, as UC requires." Not having to read complete books? I can understand that as a basis for not accepting English credit.

All I'm saying is that it seems like there is more to this story than the SF Chronicle article reported.

[bmwcyle]

He looks like a ego gone wild.

[allmendream]

“I got my BS in Biology before much evolution occurred”Mr. Rogers

Are you over 160 years old?

I have a M.S. in Biology; and evolutionary thinking is behind the entire paradigm of what I do. Evolutionary diversity within the human population is of primary concern, and the evolution of antibiotic resistance is as well. Evolution is central to the understanding and application of modern day Biology.