Posted on 08/11/2008 1:29:34 PM PDT by brytlea
Georgia’s army was in complete disarray tonight after troops and tanks fled the city of Gori in panic and abandoned it to the Russians without firing a shot.
As Russian armoured columns rolled deep into central and western Georgia, seizing several towns and a military base, President Saakashvili said his country had been cut in half.
For the first time since the crisis erupted last Thursday, Russia admitted that its troops had moved out of Abkhazia, the other breakaway region under Moscow’s protection, and seized the town of Senaki in Georgia proper.
(Excerpt) Read more at timesonline.co.uk ...
Now that Russia has invaded Georgia proper we can’t continue to stand by making diplomatic statements. Its time to start playing cold war style brinksmanship by sending a carrier group into the Black sea and relocating a fighter wing or something like that into Georgia (In a very public way so that the Russians don’t accidentally attack it). Hopefully, such a move would force the Russians to back down without our troops ever directly fighting.
Then it is time for guerrilla warfare. They need Stingers and Javelins badly to take out Russian planes and armor. Get the Russians out of the air and out their tanks and the Georgians will have a chance. Not much of a chance, but a chance.
A dozen A-10’s and a few F-15’sm would do wonders.
yeah, there's NO WAY that we wouldn't have to go across France and Germany in order to defend Poland.... cause we know the freedom loving French, German and Italian armies will hold the line till we get there.....
With all due respect, look at the history of what has happened to Poland. I'm not even talking about real old history...just look at how the Poles got screwed not once, or twice but three times by it's "allies". First with the Germans taking over, then with the Warsaw ghetto, and finally at the end of the war America sat on it's hands while the Soviets took over.
Sorry, that's just in the last century. Like I said... the Poles are great, freedom loving people screwed by their geography.
Like a frickin rabbit...... the only way to screw with a tank column is with a radio. Otherwise just delay them with mines and rockets till you can get the heck out of their way....
I'd hate to even think about going against an Abrams tank.... cause it wouldn't last very long... for me.
Without air superiority, the Georgians are just targets.
At least, that's MHO.
If the Russians intended to take Tblisi, it would already have fallen in the blitzkrieg. It would have been easy for them.
It's apparent the stated limited goals of the Russians are in fact all then intend to achieve.
you might want to do an update... cause the Russians are just rolling along. They're going to cut the country in half, get rid of the current leader or weaken him into submission, and show all the other former Soviet states what happens if you try to join NATO and mess with the bear.
This is nothing more than a land grab by a rabid bear. If the west fails to act with manly conviction and firmly put this down it is just the beginning.
How many countries around Russia have ethnic Russians living in their territory? Does a significant part of Kazakhstan belong to Russia? Perhaps Uzbekistan? Should the Ukraine lose the eastern half of it's territory because of Russian atrocities and landgrabs? Should Finland succumb to Soviet...Russian rule? And what about those territorial claims on Poland?
Further, they seem to be advancing towards Tbilisi laying the lie to your argument.
No. This is madness. If it is not checked now then millions and more will lose their lives later. The international border was set. Russian claims to South Ossetia and Azkhaban are not valid in any sense of the word. Russia is a bully and an agressor that is consolidating a stranglehold on Central Asia and the worlds energy supply. If this stands, we will all regret it.
So, you’re reasoning is basically “the bitch asked for it”? In a lawful world that doesn’t fly.
Poland, unlike Georgia, is a full NATO member and the full force of the alliance is treaty bound to fight the Russians if they invade. The Russians won't know what hit them.
South Ossetia is too small to be a “republic” and too large to be an asylum. It’s natural northern border is a mountain range. The Russians should have left and let well enough alone.
I’ll swear I didn’t read yourpost before I responded to the other poster.
Lots of bitter Soviets on FR. Is there some Russian site you can post on instead?
you can get Vince Lombardi, Jimmy Johnson or Tony Dungee to coach a group of Pop Warner 12-13 year olds, but if they play the New York Giants or Dallas Cowboys, they're gonna get their a##es handed to them.
Small unit tactics is completely different than combined air, land and sea assaults with combined surface and air units.
takes many, many years and BILLIONS of dollars to arm, supply and train an armed force that can fight a strategic as well as tactical battle.
Heck I'll bet our paper clip budget or ink cartridge budget at the Pentagon is more than the Georgians spent last year. Have you seen the video and still photos of the troops and their supplies?
With some of the training and weapons that we've provided, I'm betting that Russia is going to have to take the whole pie, put it under it's control or they are going to die the death of a thousand cuts with small bands of men with just enough weapons and training to make life nasty for the Russians.
......I don't mean to be argumentative, but exactly which country is ready right this minute to stop the Russian tanks from rolling across Poland.
NATO is what???? exactly... Germany is going to shed blood for Poland? Sure they are...
The Italians will do what? Talk about it with the rest of the EU first in Belgium... a couple of months at least, right?
The French..... (suppressing a laugh) are going to yank out their white flags for the Poles I suppose.
The Brits are having a hard enough time standing up to street punk muzzies in their own country and have, I think, not improved their logistical capabilities. ......
The Danes..... well they are the most PC army with all the gay stuff and what not... but as far as holding the line against the Russians..... not so much.
Spain.... on siesta
The United States.... middle of an election, so sorry wouldn't be "prudent" to do a massive air and sea lift to Germany, Italy, Turkey or wherever the planners have us holding the line if we needed to...
So you see, the Poles are once again a victim of geography. Always have been, always will be..... that's why history is so very important.
Russia will not assault Tblisi. They’re not COMPLETELY nuts.
>>>Militarily, I don’t think there’s anything that we could try that would be both direct and effective.
First, the Georgians should not have stirred up the Russians ire.
But a deluge of Chinese anti-tank weapons would be a real help to the Georgians.
>>>look at the history of what has happened to Poland
Getting other allies to regard the Russian attacks as a warning might be the way to get the Russians to retreat.
If Poland and other neighbors would then announce or start deep American (or West) relations (military bases, etc.) in a publicly stated response, wouldn’t Putin see his incursion as a mistake? Maybe a quid pro quo could be quickly worked out. Over time, Georgia’s goal should be integration with the West’s economy.
In a like manner, Taiwan should have gone for deep Japanese integration in the 1960s and 1970s, including the welcoming and the subsidizing of US naval bases.
Putin should be worrying about Chinese incursion on his resources, as his populations shrinks to zero, as well as getting high prices for his (now unreliable) supply of energy to Europe. How’s the stock market doing over there in Russia?
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/quote?ticker=RTSI%24%3AIND
Putin’s been riding the commodity boom, but Russia’s commodity fortunes may turn quickly... as commodity busts can be quite dramatic.
The Georgian leadership needs to be replaced, after their gross mis-calculation of Russia. The Russians see (old Joe’s) Georgia as their sphere of influence. They (and we) should have tread lightly.
I charge that we now have an unequivocal answer. They will expand to dominate resources such as the Russian seizure of the Georgian oil pipeline, similar to how the immature fascist states of yesteryear sought territory.
In this case, the Russians deliberately escalated a situation seeking to cause a confrontation, which may in turn be another piece of the puzzle as to how they will act.
You say they won't assault Tbilisi. Tbilisi does not have to be occupied to control the oil lines. Though I still believe the Russians will, but we shall see.
The question is now, since we apparently won't do anything other than wring our hands, what country will be their next target. Noting this, it has to have a region they can encourage rebels within and some valuable resource worth having.
With that in mind we can develop a test. Will Russian backed rebel activity start in one of the -stans? Will the Russians then use government suppression of rebels as an excuse to seize the resources? If so, we will know for certain the modus operandi for the expansion of a mature fascist state. My hypothesis to these questions is yes.
“They are the pre-eminant low tech tank and armored vehicle killers out there.”
I disagree, the Ewoks from the forest moon of Endor were better.
It must be infuriating for our guys over there. With the risk of war we could so easily decimate those russian columns...
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