I've seen some very interesting posts on FR today. Someone mentioned that we should move our aircraft carriers, another mentioned that we should have B-2 bombers and A-10 attack planes to attack Russian armored columns, while another simply stated that we should begin to carpet bomb Russian targets. Interposed between all that were calls for Special Forces (American) to respond to the situation, funding and support of the Georgians, and the US military to step in.
I have never seen such tripe in quite a while. People are rushing to type war with Russia as if it was some video-game.
I have read a lot on the story between Russia and Georgia, and the TRUTH is that BOTH SIDES have crap on their hands. Neither is lily white ...Russia is not innocent (after all, it is in sovereign territory), and Georgia is not the 'Christian' saint that some FReepers are trying to make them out to be (some of the things the Georgians have done against the S.O separatists have not only been very close to cleansing, but they have been against civilians in several instances). Both houses have a pox on them. The current thing is just the result of years (depending on how you look at it, decades) of bad blood between the two protagonists.
The stuff we did in the Balkans also did not help much, but that is not necessary here .....it would be merely semantics at this point.
The main thrust is this ....do the people who are talking about B2 bombers and A-10 warthogs really expect the US to do ANYTHING???? In my opinion all that Bush will do is simply speak. Nothing more. No aid, no g2 assistance, no boots on the ground (that would be hilarious). At most, and even this would be a stretch, would be giving the Georgians some sat intel, and that would even be surprising.
We are in an election year right now. No politician will want to handle that situation ....and while many here see it as advantageous to McCain, if the US Army was to make a move it could easily backfire (as voters see yet another war).
I honestly do not know what is to be done (as mentioned, a pox on both houses. The Russians and the Georgians both have blood on their hands, and this is the result of stupidity on both sides). However I would like to know just what the US is supposed to do .....send A-10 warthogs? Supply the Georgians like the supplies to the Afghan Mujahadeen in the 1980s? Threaten the Russians with military retaliation? Return the US Army units that (so conveniently) left Georgia just before the attacks began? (To be honest I would not be surprised if the Russians had communicated the attack to us before it happened ....)
What exactly is the US supposed to do? What would McCain do in this situation? Pull out troops from Iraq and Afghanistan? Send in the B2s and A10s as some are saying? Supply the Georgians with Javelins to stop the Russian tanks? What?
I would SO like to hear a cogent logical post of what exactly the US is to do, because all I've been reading on other threads are requests of B-2 Stealth bombers and ....oh, a good one ....giving Georgian Intermediate-range ballistic missiles (I assume armed with nuclear warheads).
Sometimes I think that at least a quarter of FReepers are sick in the head. Not as bad a ratio as over in DU, but giving nuke IRBMs to Georgia????
I do feel bad for Georgia, especially since they are either no 3 or no 4 in terms of numbers supporting the effort in Iraq. However, I would still like to hear a logical answer as to how the US is supposed to do anything about the situation (hopefully without mention of warthogs, highways of death, and intermediate range nuclear ballistic missiles ....please include ray guns and photon torpedoes here as well).
Fair enough. Georgia sent troops to help the US operations in Iraq. For the sake of obtaining future cooperation from other countries, the US should at least reciprocate. If it were up to me, I’d send 2000 US troops (the same number as sent by Georgia to Iraq), and all the associated supplies.
On the other hand, I would be satisfied, at this early stage, with simply sending the Georgians whatever non-exotic military equipment they needed to equip a few batallions. No nukes, no subs, and no manned aircraft. The Georgian military has apparently been trained in the use of US weapons, so simply sending resupplies might be very effective.
I’d re-evaluate every day, of course, and I’d make sure the Pentagon has plans drawn up to escalate or de-escalate as needed, but, for now, I’d consider Georgia as a shooting gallery for the Georgians to kill as many Russian troops as possible, until such time as the Russians decide to leave.
We have the satellite and the electronic capability to stand off from Georgia and help in this manner. We have the capability to provide all types of material support in trade.
I do notbelieve we are prepared or that it would be wise, short of Russians killing American soldiers in Georgia, to put any boots on the ground or combat aircraft in the air.
But I would watch the Ukraine and other satellite states in that regard, because they may provide more support. Part of it is Russian frustration over the move of so many of their former "satellite" states towards NATO and the EU and them not being able to stop it. Part of it is the old Rissuan desire for lareg buffers between their soil and any large, capable nation's influence on their borders, another big part of it is oil and that major pipelie that Georgia has crossing it.
I do believe that we have to respond strongly to this message or the Russians will be emboldened on other fronts. But if the Russians expand this to other provinces and keep moving deeper into Gerogia with any aim to depose the Georgian government, install their own puppet, and gain defact contro over that oiul, then you will see increasing aid of all sorts going to Georgi to try and prevent that.
It is a very dangerous situation, but one that the Russians have clearly thought out (anbd were prepared for BTW, the movement of their armor and large numbers of troops didn;t happen in a few hours or a couple of days...they have been planning this) and one where they are risking a high stakes military gambit under the auspice of "protecting" their "people" who live in Georgia. Sounds all the world like Hitler and the Sudetenland in 1938 in that regard.
We have to be firm and we have to be measured and careful at the same time...but we do need to respond strongly and with more than words. Words is exactly what Putin is counting on.
We can help, and I believe it has to be forthright, but also very measured and careful. IMHO, we should communicate directly, without fanfare but in unmistakable terms that we are serious about providing whatever logistical, material, and G2 support to the Gerogians that we can and that the situation is likely to be extremely costly for the Russians as long as they remain on soveriegn Georgian soil.
We have the satellite and the electronic capability to stand off from Georgia and help in this manner. We have the capability to provide all types of material support in trade.
I do not believe we are prepared or that it would be wise, short of Russians killing American soldiers in Georgia, to put any boots on the ground or combat aircraft in the air.
But I would watch the Ukraine and other satellite states in that regard, because they may provide more support.
This is a message the Russians are sending. it is a message to all the former block states, it is a message to Europe, and it is a message to US.
Part of it is Russian frustration over the move of so many of their former "satellite" states towards NATO and the EU and them not being able to stop it. Part of it is the old Russuan desire for lareg buffers between their soil and any large, capable nation's influence on their borders, another big part of it is oil and that major pipelie that Georgia has crossing it.
I do believe that we have to respond strongly to this message or the Russians will be emboldened on other fronts.
If the Russians bloody the Georgian's nose in that one Provence, push the Georgians back, and then pull back themselves...there is a chance that things can cool down.
But if the Russians expand this to other provinces and keep moving deeper into Gerogia with any aim to depose the Georgian government, install their own puppet, and gain defact contro over that oiul, then you will see increasing aid of all sorts going to Georgi to try and prevent that.
It is a very dangerous situation, but one that the Russians have clearly thought out (anbd were prepared for BTW, the movement of their armor and large numbers of troops didn;t happen in a few hours or a couple of days...they have been planning this) and one where they are risking a high stakes military gambit under the auspice of "protecting" their "people" who live in Georgia. Sounds all the world like Hitler and the Sudetenland in 1938 in that regard.
We have to be firm and we have to be measured and careful at the same time...but we do need to respond strongly and with more than words. Words is exactly what Putin is counting on.
This is a perfect opportunity to strengthen ties with former soviet block nations and to ensure that russia never regains control of it’s former com-bloc nations.
I think it would be dumb to pass on this opportunity. A stronger russia is NOT what we need right now.
We don’t have to go to war with the russians. We just need to give the georgians and the ukranians weapons and intell...indirectly if possible. And maybe talk someone else into assisting them with their air support...like maybe turkey.