Posted on 08/07/2008 8:42:20 PM PDT by Kevmo
When and How will the Obama Birth Certificate Forgery story break into the MSM? How do we get this out? Will we need to start filing lawsuits in each individual state?
Post your suppositions and activist suggestions here.
In Obama's case it is even more clear -- he is a citizen of both the US and Kenya according to a newspaper biographical report. His actual allegiance is divided, he campaigned in Kenya for his cousin there.
Moreover due to the circumstance of his adoption by the step-dad, the Indonesian Mr. Soetoro in Indonesia, according to the law of Indonesia at the time (as reported by Judah Benjamin at Texas Darlin blog) Obama would have to have become an Indonesian citizen.
His allegiances are highly conflicted. He, himself, calls himself a "citizen of the World".
I agree, excepting I’m guessing the Clintons have people strong-arming him because it behind the scenes now: that’s the only impact I see from it.
The problem is, while I know what you mean, "allegiance" is a hard thing to measure, and may mean different things to different people. That's why there's constitutional law.
Correct me if I am wrong (not that I have any fear you won't ;-), but the rules on the books would indicate that one US citizen parent, if old enough and with the right residency qualifications, would be enough to have their child be a US citizen at birth, even if born in another country the parent was visiting.
I also have read that the rules on the books have never been tested in courtroom regarding a candidate's qualifications, so nothing is certain.
How do you square this claim with the fact that, in 1790, Congress (which still inclided many of the FF) passed a law which stated:
"And the children of citizens of the United States that may be born beyond sea, or outside the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural born citizens."
See post #141
The Rather document went through several xeroxings to give it the proper aged look...
...and a muslim.
His allegiances are highly conflicted. He, himself, calls himself a "citizen of the World".
That's rather telling for anyone paying attention.
Anyone (other than the children of diplomats) born in the United States is a natural-born citizen. Period.
The citizenship of the parents is completely irrelevant.
The only time a question comes up is if the child is born overseas.
It's been refuted since it can't be reproduced: http://cannonfire.blogspot.com/2008/08/truth-about-fake-birth-certificate.html
We need to send Magic Eight Balls to the US Supreme Court quick. For indeed, “nothing is certain”! And they might need the legal help.
You're really off-base on this one. The Benedict Arnold example doesn't work in the slightest- that would violate Article 3, Section 3 of the Constitution: "The Congress shall have Power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted."
But what of the case of a son of a father (or mother) who never was a citizen? In that case I think there is not way for the son to make a proof greater than what will always be the allegiance to his father's (or mother's) country.
Nonsense. A person born in the United States does not have to prove his allegiance in any way. A person who becomes a citizen by naturalization proves their allegiance by swearing an oath at the naturalization ceremony.
Following your logic, we could never try a person for treason if they have one or more non-citizen parents. Note that this category includes potentially millions of "anchor-babies."
Also today I'm writing from what I remember of Blackstone, and I thought he had mentioned a consideration of treason. I could be wrong on that too. Still, the general point is that "natural born" is better read as "born to a natural presumption of whole allegiance".
From what I can tell, they already have their own.
I read post #141. You’ll note that the Constitution doesn’t define “natural-born.” We can all agree the term includes people born in the US, but excludes naturalized citizen.
That leaves the category of people who were citizens at birth, but were not born in the US. In their case, we need either a law or a court ruling to decide whether they are natural-born for purposes of the Constitution.
We have a law from 1790 which defines natural-born to include someone born abroad to an American citizen. As I mentioned, many of the FF were in Congress at the time. With this law being passed so close to the date of adoption of the Constitution, by many of the people who actually drafted the Constitution, that is a very good showing of the original intent behind the natural-born clause: i.e., that it is meant to cover everyone who is an American citizen at birth, rather than through naturalization.
What would you define as a natural-born citizen, then, if that term does not include someone born in the US?
Will we need to start filing lawsuits in each individual state? Absolutely not. We want the Hillary people’s fingerprints on any formal action, not ours.
***I’m okay with that until about September, if there’s no progress then this belongs in the republican camp. Of course, the pubbies have no cojones, but conservatives do. Basically, we should not discourage any Freeper or conservative who has the wherewithal to file such a suit in his/her individual state. It doesn’t matter if this gets perceived as a republican operation because the facts are facts. When Gennifer Flowers played her tape of Clintoon telling her to lie about their affair, it was enough evidence to knock down that POS but the republicans didn’t have the cojones. That was before the internet. Anyone who has the desire has the facts behind them, and now the pajamas media is in a position to seriously damage a presidential campaign. This is as big as it gets.
What proof did George Bush show to demonstrate his eligibility? Just curious.
If Obama can verify that he was born in Hawaii, then there is no argument about his citizenship status.
***In the meantime there is political hay to make of this forgery that has been endorsed by Obama’s campaign.
Don’t quit your day job.
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