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1 posted on 07/18/2008 6:28:41 AM PDT by wintertime
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To: wintertime

We’ve done so. My son said of the old math, “Well Dad that makes more sense to me.”


2 posted on 07/18/2008 6:34:35 AM PDT by Slapshot68
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To: wintertime
Darn right..Someone has to do it. Also teaching spelling on the side. Couldn't believe teachers didn't correct spelling because it shuts down creativeness.

Guess teachers have never read novels...

3 posted on 07/18/2008 6:36:13 AM PDT by Sacajaweau (I'm planting corn...Have to feed my car...)
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To: wintertime

It’s an AP story. Excerpts of AP stories are shot on sight.


4 posted on 07/18/2008 6:37:35 AM PDT by Admin Moderator
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To: wintertime
I read the article. Some of the newer math is pretty downright cool. And in my time, I refused to allow my kids to use manipulatives in math, until they'd mastered the rote learning of math. They were permitted to use the newer math, and I do not mean rainforest math, but this was only after they'd learned the traditional methods.

The article was fairly covered in re the subject matter.

However, I'll cite an anology I've seen zillions of times in the non-school world.

At the cash register of any retail business. Amount due is $20.61. Customer forks out 40.11. -- The change due the customer would be $19.50 -- an even amount, less change to trot out and around.

Some customers are very arrogant about this.

They shouldn't be. It was due how they were taught math; not that they are necessarily "smarter" at math.

5 posted on 07/18/2008 6:39:01 AM PDT by Alia
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To: wintertime

The article quotes a mother of a 10-year-old, she has “degrees” plural, from Stanford and Barnard, but “I’m such a numbskull!” She can’t cope with the math taught to a public school child aged 10.


8 posted on 07/18/2008 6:44:28 AM PDT by 668 - Neighbor of the Beast (Only a Kennedy between us and tyranny.)
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To: Gabz; SoftballMominVA; abclily; aberaussie; albertp; AliVeritas; Amelia; A_perfect_lady; ...

Public Education Ping

This list is for intellectual discussion of articles and issues related to public education (including charter schools) from the preschool to university level. Items more appropriately placed on the “Naughty Teacher” list, “Another reason to Homeschool” list, or of a general public-school-bashing nature will not be pinged. If you would like to be on or off this list, please freepmail Amelia, Gabz, Shag377, or SoftballMominVa
15 posted on 07/18/2008 7:00:35 AM PDT by Amelia
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To: adopt4Christ; Amelia; MrB; Boiling point; Cincinnatus; Clintonfatigued; Coleus; darkangel82; ...
I recently posted this education article. Since those managing the Public Education Ping list do not include me on their ping list, I am pinging you directly.

If you do not want to be contacted *please** let me know, and I will remove your name. I surely wouldn’t wish to bother you, but I don’t want you to miss these education articles, either.

“The All Opinions Welcome Government Education Ping List” !

For those who are interested in a full and open discussion about government education.

Please ping me if you would like to be included or removed from this list. i>

16 posted on 07/18/2008 7:02:06 AM PDT by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are NOT stupid)
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To: wintertime

The thing that really frosts me about this story is the attitude - professional teachers know best, if fearful parents are going to teach their kids outdated stuff they’d better check with the teacher, most parents are too stupid to teach fourth grade math.

Scary!


24 posted on 07/18/2008 7:06:10 AM PDT by JenB
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To: wintertime

Teaching Math In 1950:
A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100. His cost of production is 4/5 of the price. What is his profit?

Teaching Math In 1960:
A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100. His cost of production is 4/5 of the price, or $80. What is his profit?

Teaching Math In 1970:
A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100. His cost of production is $80. Did he make a profit?

Teaching Math In 1980:
A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100. His cost of production is $80 and his profit is $20. Your assignment: Underline the number 20.

Teaching Math In 1990:
By cutting down beautiful forest trees, the logger makes $20. What do you think of this way of making a living? Topic for class participation after answering the question: How did the forest birds and squirrels feel as the logger cut down the trees. (There are no wrong answers.)

Teaching Math In 2005:
El hachero vende un camion carga por $100. La cuesta de production es.............


25 posted on 07/18/2008 7:07:23 AM PDT by dfwgator ( This tag blank until football season.)
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To: wintertime

I tutor Middle School math — pre-algebra, algebra, 6th grade math. I ALWAYS teach the kids the old-fashioned way — “It has to make sense. It is binary, right or wrong.” These are liberating concepts. The parents hate the ‘new’ math, no one can help their kids. AND it is absolutely imperative that our kids learn how to do math.

One could think there was a conspiracy behind it.


26 posted on 07/18/2008 7:08:50 AM PDT by bboop (Stealth Tutor)
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To: wintertime
One problem, Cooney says, is that parents remember math as offering only one way to solve a problem. "We're saying that there's more than one way," Cooney says. "The outcome will be the same, but how we get there will be different." Thus, when a parent is asked to multiply 88 by 5, we'll do it with pen and paper, multiplying 8 by 5 and carrying over the 4, etc. But a child today might reason that 5 is half of 10, and 88 times 10 is 880, so 88 times 5 is half of that, 440 _ poof, no pen, no paper.

That's actually how I handle simple multiplication. I do this with tips, especially- divide the bill by ten then multiply by two to get a 20% tip. I don't actually see anything wrong with teaching kids these types of shortcuts.

28 posted on 07/18/2008 7:11:44 AM PDT by Citizen Blade
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To: wintertime
One problem, Cooney says, is that parents remember math as offering only one way to solve a problem. "We're saying that there's more than one way," Cooney says. "The outcome will be the same, but how we get there will be different." Thus, when a parent is asked to multiply 88 by 5, we'll do it with pen and paper, multiplying 8 by 5 and carrying over the 4, etc. But a child today might reason that 5 is half of 10, and 88 times 10 is 880, so 88 times 5 is half of that, 440 _ poof, no pen, no paper.

"The traditional way is really a shortcut," Cooney says. "We want kids to be so confident with numbers that it becomes intuitive."

Cooney is an idiot and has it backwards. The traditional way works for any pair of operands, and takes a consistent time, it's not a short cut. The trick he suggested is a short cut, that works only for 5 times something. You'd have to come up with different trick for other operands. And what trick would he suggest for 357 x 482?

You teach the traditional method as it works, and works for all operands - then you teach the speed-up tricks for common operands.

It's a real good thing when the 'one way' solves the problem correctly everytime, and everybody else knows the one way, and can check your work.

40 posted on 07/18/2008 7:26:00 AM PDT by slowhandluke (It's hard work to be cynical enough in this age)
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To: wintertime

When have you ever seen a “New Math” kid who was able to make change in their head?


48 posted on 07/18/2008 7:36:13 AM PDT by fella ("...He that followeth after vain persons shall have poverty enough." Pv.28:19')
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To: Peanut Gallery

For later reading.


51 posted on 07/18/2008 7:40:50 AM PDT by Professional Engineer (www.pinupsforvets.com)
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To: wintertime

My biggest difficulty is the fundamentals, when do the kids get to work on learning the basic math facts. It always seemed to me that they just started asking us for the answers and gave us this little table with the answers to study. After complaining to missus infool7 she came up with a math game that we have been promoting but so far there isn’t much interest. I think teaching math is no longer a priority.


53 posted on 07/18/2008 7:44:38 AM PDT by infool7 (Ignorance isn't bliss its slavery in denial)
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To: wintertime
Thanks for reposting. My high schooler has been indoctrinated with only "reform math" methods for 8 years (except for my renegade parenting at home -where I make her memorize multiplication facts, etc.) We are in a TitleI school (high poverty), where kids get to 8th grade and do not know 8x7, because they forgot to put their calculator in their pocket. Then if you ask them 28x14, they draw a lattice grid and figure it out -but not quick enough to draw lots of lattices and actually finish the state-mandated test.

My high schooler does not perform any math in school without a calculator (since 5th grade - Connected Math is the publisher), therefore, she has forgotten her math facts - including how to draw a division sign and which number 'goes where.' She qualified as gifted in math in elementary school. Yes, I am using an "-ed" at the end of the word qualify.

Indoctrination, educrats not wanting parents to help the kids, "it's not fair" if some accel, etc. seems to all point toward a socialist/communist education system.

The State of Georgia BOE has restructured the entire HS curriculum to an integrated (reform, constructivist) math. Our students will no longer graduate from high school with Trigonometry, Algebra I, etc. written on their transcript. The courses are Math 1, Math 2, etc - where each year is a combination of classes -that terrific "spiraling" approach the educrats are so fond of using. It begins with the 2008-2009 freshmen.

76 posted on 07/18/2008 8:09:24 AM PDT by too much time (Were any educrats proficient at math in school?)
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To: wintertime

Anytime the subject of math education in the US is discussed, it always brings to mind the reported results of international math rankings. When ranking US students internationally, they score #1 in confidence in their math ability, and #17 in math ability demonstrated on standardized tests.

I think most interpret this to mean that our schools are successfully building our students self-esteem.


87 posted on 07/18/2008 8:29:20 AM PDT by Will88
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To: wintertime

Most of what kids learn is at home or on their own, those that care about it. Why don’t thesefamilies that are enough to teach “old math”- read Real Math - at home go ahead and homeschool?


88 posted on 07/18/2008 8:31:43 AM PDT by arthurus
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To: wintertime

If we start in the 1950s and 1960s and call the teaching of long division and memorizing multiplication tables as method #1, I wonder how many “New Maths” been foisted on students since that period? What we can conclude is that our educators really don’t yet know the best way to teach math, or maybe the best method was abandoned in the 1970s and too many “theoreticians” and multiculturalists have gotten into the act since.


116 posted on 07/18/2008 9:42:46 AM PDT by Will88
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To: wintertime

From the article: “And as for the concepts-before-procedure argument, she quips: “Would you want to go to a doctor who’s learned about the concepts but never done the surgery? Would you want your doctor to say I had the right IDEA when I removed your appendix, though I took out the wrong one.”

Wrong example. Without concepts, someone who is a wizard with a knife, might take out the wrong organ, for example.


153 posted on 07/18/2008 1:33:39 PM PDT by NathanR ( Drill here. Drill now. Pay less.)
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