Posted on 07/14/2008 7:43:51 AM PDT by SJackson
Officials of the declining 4.9 million Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA) have revealed what God’s priorities are in the U.S. presidential campaign. And remarkably, the divine priorities was very akin to the Democratic Party’s priorities, if not further to the left.
Presiding Bishop Mark Hanson, with three other ELCA officials generously wrote both presidential candidates a public letter with the divine guidance. Although famed Protestant Reformer Martin Luther championed the Bible as God’s exclusive revelation, modern ELCA activists have located more useful counsel in the secular welfare state and environmental agenda.
“The Scriptures are clear about God's concern for and solidarity with people living in poverty and on the margins of society,” the Lutherans portentously intoned in the letter. “They are equally clear that God calls us to be stewards of creation. We bring into the public square a commitment to service for the well-being of all of God's children and a faith conviction that government is an important catalyst in God's work of restoring peace, achieving economic justice and protecting the environment.”
Observe that the Lutherans cite government as “an important catalyst in God’s work.” In fact, their agenda implies that government is virtually God’s only instrument. The Lutherans want government to abolish poverty, prohibit war, cleanse the environment, engineer egalitarian justice globally, and seemingly usher in The Millennium through additional regulation and taxation. If government can achieve so much, who needs God, much less the church?
Traditionally, Christians have seen the universal church as God’s primary instrument for revealing Himself in the world. Christians have also traditionally attached great importance to marriage, the family, private charity, and a vast array of mediating institutions that sustain human relations and mitigate against injustice and despair. The New Testament describes the state as primarily God’s instrument for temporally punishing or deterring criminality and aggression. But the Religious Left, including the Lutheran prelates, attach messianic importance and powers to the state. Perhaps Caesar is Lord after all?
Just as revealingly, the ELCA officials, duty bound at least briefly to reference the Bible, claim the Scriptures are “clear” about how to reduce poverty and protect the environment. In fact, the Scriptures offer broad principles, not specific political prescriptions. On issues about which the Scriptures are genuinely “clear,” such as marriage and human life, the left-wing Lutherans prefer to be silent. They are more comfortable in identifying Divine Providence with the endless expansion of state power.
“The persistent poverty in America is a moral scandal and an affront to our nation,” the Lutherans bewail. They grimly paint a bleak tableau of scarcity and struggle in America, “ claiming “historically high degrees of economic inequality between the rich and poor,” while “upward economic mobility is a reality for only one-third of Americans.” Indeed, poverty is “far higher than in many other developed countries.” Working against all this misery requires “sustained commitment from our political leaders.”
How likely would the Apostles, or Luther, have viewed modern America’s lower income people, most of whom are armed with air conditioned homes, automobiles, cable television and high tech gadgetry, along with modern health care, record life spans and food stuffs from a global market, as desperately poor? Poverty is often a relative term. And by the standards of history, or most of today’s world, few in America are genuinely impoverished. Many of America’s lower income people are indeed trapped in a cycle of relative subsistence, thanks partly to government programs that punish initiative, and social pathologies that inhibit advance. Avoiding poverty in America mostly entails finishing high school, shunning drug and alcohol addictions, not having illegitimate children, and avoiding divorce. But the Religious Left, contrary to its own religious traditions, is not interested in shaping personal choices. It prefers the compulsion of state regulation and taxation.
Predictably, the Lutherans want the U.S. government to guarantee a 50 percent reduction in U.S. poverty in 10 years, provide “comprehensive health care,” i.e. socialized medicine, and create more federally subsidized low income housing. In essence, God’s plan for America is simply expanding the Great Society programs of the 1960’s, despite their 40 year track record of locking in rather than reducing poverty.
And naturally, the Lutherans discern that “global warming presents a terrible and growing threat to the future of God's creation.” They want an 80 percent reduction of greenhouse gas emissions by 2050. The Lutherans prefer not to address how shutting down industry and restricting economic growth will affect the poor. The Lutherans also want to redirect “valuable research dollars” away from clean coal technology towards the more mythically appealing wind, sun and water energy sources. In other words, the less plausible an energy source, the more funding it deserves.
The God of the Lutherans wants liberalized immigration policies to accommodate all the millions who, unaware of how impoverished and unjust America actually is, still desire to immigrate here. And the divine plan also demands that the U.S. government expend at least $140 billion a year in foreign aid, cancel all foreign debt, increase funding for the United Nations, and advocate “fair trade” rather than free trade. Coercively redistributing old wealth, rather than encouraging creation of new wealth, is always a supreme moral imperative for unimaginative left-wing clergy.
As to war, the Lutherans confirm that “marginalization and desperation, often perpetuated by poverty and hunger,” are at the root of most conflicts. If only the U.S. Government would mail more checks to all the world’s aggrieved parties, global peace might be achieved. The ELCA prelates want more U.S. “diplomatic pressure” on the Iraqi government, increased “robust diplomacy” to create a “viable contiguous Palestinian state,” and “urgent diplomatic efforts” to establish peace in Sudan. Again, U.S. dollars are the key to success. The Lutherans do not offer specific concern about human rights or even religious liberty.
“Loving and serving our neighbors -- Lutherans make a difference,” the ELCA officials modestly conclude in their letter to John McCain and Barak Obama. Cain. But their manifesto implies that the only “love” that Lutherans are exhibiting is lobbying for expanded state powers, taxation and spending, with confidence that dollars are the solution to all the world’s ills. Ostensibly, Christians traditionally understand that Mammon ultimately can solve few of mankind’s miseries, most of which are spiritual rather than material.
But officials of the shrinking ELCA, in their demands to the presidential candidates, imply they have less confidence in the Gospel than they do in the healing, wonder-working powers of Big Government.
You wouldn’t know that, necessarily, from so many of the things that the Bush administration has accomplished, in the last seven and a half years.
Actions and consequences, I mean.
http://bible.cc/matthew/7-5.htm:
King James version:
Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/19590
The unanimity of opinion on this issue, here, is just a little bit troubling.
We left the ELCA for the LCMS in 1992 and have been similarly blessed.
Let no one foolishly read the Old Testament as mere history or a fairy tale: the same God reigns today and does not change. To Him alone be the glory.
"A wise man's heart goes to the right, but a fool's heart to the LEFT." Ecclesiastes 10:2
Well, I sense that in a way some who are reading this may also feel this is not a question that anyone is judging this at all...
You can certainly be “critical” of anything without judging the situation...
There is certainy a fine line that separates the two terms...
Being judgemental can be condusive to either a positive or negative opinion about something as well...
Last time I read Leviticus, His words decried most of the demoncrat religion.
I followed his advice and DID.
“True of liberals in all the Christian denominations.”
True of all institutionalized churches, “Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away” (2 Tim 3:5).
Among churches polled, the highest percentages of “born again believers” were found in the Assemblies of God (81%), then other Pentecostal/Foursquare churches (80%), non-denominational Protestant churches (76%), and Baptist churches (67%). 7http://www.barna.org/FlexPage.aspx?Page=BarnaUpdate&BarnaUpdateID=92
*
Catholics*, at 25%, represented the the lowest number of born again believers among the 12 largest denominational groupings in America. ^7
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Only 1% of Catholics fit the definition (see first section) of evangelical. ^7
*
Protestants remain the largest religious segment of America, claiming 56% of the adult population. Catholics represent about 22%, atheists and agnostics are about 7%, and Mormons are just under 2%. Barna Research 2001 8 http://www.barna.org/FlexPage.aspx?Page=BarnaUpdate&BarnaUpdateID=93 See also http://www.barna.org/FlexPage.aspx?Page=Topic&TopicID=15
*
Among 7,441 Protestant pastors. Asked if they believed that the Bible is the inspired, inerrant Word of God: 87% of Methodists said NO. 95% of Episcopalians said NO. 82% of Presbyterians said NO. 67% of American Baptists said N0. Pulpit Helps, December 1987
*
Weekly Church attendance (12 denominations polled, Christian and nominal Christian): Outside of Mormon Temple worshipers at 62%, Church of Christ churches were the highest with 37% reporting they attended every Sonday. Christian Pentecostal/Foursquare and Assemblies of God churches were close behind at 37% and 35% respectively. The lowest figure for weekly Sunday attendance was that of 6% for Catholics, and 11% for the Episcopal church.^8
*
Bible Reading: the highest was 75%, by those going to a Pentecostal/Foursquare church who reported they had read the Bible during the past week (besides at church), while the lowest was among Catholic at 23%.^8
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Volunteer church work (during past 7 days): Assemblies of God were highest at 30%, with the lowest going to Catholics at 12%.^8
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Donating Money (during the last month): Church of Christ churches were the highest at 29%, with Catholics being the lowest at 12%.^8
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By denomination, 61% of the those associated with an Assemblies of God church said they had shared their faith at least once during the past year, followed by 61% of those who attend a Pentecostal/Foursquare church, and ending 14% among Episcopalians and just 10% among Roman Catholics.^8
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Evangelism , 23% of church-going born again persons said they shared their faith in Jesus Christ with a non-Christian during the past year. http://www.barna.org/FlexPage.aspx?Page=BarnaUpdate&BarnaUpdateID=147
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The highest percentage of those who strongly agree they have a personal responsibility to share their faith was found among believers in Pentecostal/Foursquare churches (73%) [Independent Fundamental Baptists, who usually are the most committed in this, were grouped with other baptists]. http://www.barna.org/FlexPage.aspx?Page=BarnaUpdate&BarnaUpdateID=147
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Only 8% of Senior Pastors say they have the gift of evangelism, just 12% the spiritual gift of leadership; but 66% say they have the gift of teaching or preaching. Barna Research 2001.http://www.barna.org/FlexPage.aspx?Page=BarnaUpdate&BarnaUpdateID=103
*
81% of Pentecostal/Foursquare believers strongly agree that the Bible is totally accurate in all that it teaches , followed by 77% of Assemblies of God believers, and ending with 26% of Catholics and 22% of Episcopalians. http://www.barna.org/FlexPage.aspx?Page=BarnaUpdate&BarnaUpdateID=92
*
73% (highest) of Pentecostal/Foursquare believers strongly affirm that Christ was sinless on earth, with Catholics, Lutherans and Methodists being tied at 33%, and the lowest being among Episcopalians with just 28% 7http://www.barna.org/FlexPage.aspx?Page=BarnaUpdate&BarnaUpdateID=92
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64% of those in Assemblies of God churches (versus only 9% of Catholics) strongly DISAGREE that if a person is generally good, or does enough good things for others they will earn a place in Heaven [salvation on the basis of merit]. Only ^ (See Romans 3-5, Eph. 2:8, 9; Titus 3:5, etc.). ^7
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56% of Assemblies of God (versus 17% Catholics) Christians strongly DISAGREE that Satan is just a symbol of evil [rather than a real being]. ^7
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Catholics and Mainline Protestants tend towards more belief in a more Distant God. 5.5Baylor Institute for Studies of Religion - American Piety in the 21 Century – September 2006 . http://www.baylor.edu/isreligion/index.php?id=40634
*
Evangelical Protestants and Black Protestants tend towards belief in a more Authoritarian God. ^
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Jews tend towards belief in a Distant God and over 8% of Jews in the sample report being atheists. ^
http://peacebyjesus.witnesstoday.org/RevealingStatistics.html#Sec4
Orthodox (29%), Mainline Churches (28%), and Catholics (27%) led Christian Churches in affirming their Scriptures were written by men and were not the word of God, versus Mormons (4%), Historically Black Churches (9%%), and Evangelical Churches (7%).
52% of Mormons 38% Evangelical Churches, and 31% of Mainline Churches said they were Republican, while all other faith groups were predominately Democrats, such as 33% of Catholics, 37% of Muslims, 47% of Jews, 66% of Historically Black Churches.
Unaffiliated (31%), Muslims (29%), Historically Black Churches (24%), Mormons (24%) and Other Faiths (24%) had a greater percentage of souls aged 18-29 than the rest, with Mainline Churches ((14%), Other Christians (16%), Evangelical Churches (17%), having the lowest percentage in that group. Mainline Churches had the greater percentage (23%) of souls 65 and older.
The majority (64%) of Evangelical and Historically Black Churches (46%) affirmed “Homosexuality is a way of life that should be discouraged by society”, while the majority (58%) of Catholics, and Mainline Churches (56%) favored it’s acceptance by society,as did Other Faiths (84%) Buddhists (82%) and Jews (79%).
http://religions.pewforum.org/comparisons#
“I do not see how any bible-believing Christian can be a Democrat.”
It is hard enough to even be a Republican, and who end up doing what the Democrats to, only slower.
Liberal ___________ (insert name of “Liberation theology infected sect) is to Judeo-Christianity as Etch-A-Sketch is to art.
Let me just say this: when Bishop Hanson claims to represent 4 million ELCA members as he lobbies Congress on behalf of global warming, gay rights, immigration stance or using govt to redistribute wealth.......he is counting you as one of those he represents.......
I succeeded in getting our church to halt the benevolence payments, but could not get over what I just communicated to you....LCMS for four years now.
I know, I hear you. I have read all the posts to my husband and while he agrees that we should find a new church, we both are not ready to leave it. I do not like what the ELCA has become. I will continue to email them and for now that will have to do. I’ve been in my church for 23 years, my kids grew up in that church. As they are all currently dating/marrying Catholics, there won’t be much to hold me there once they are gone.
Define poverty. The poorest Americans are among the richest peoples the world has ever seen.
I am a Lutheran, and these guys are nuts. This is why I am not in the ELCA (or associated) synods!
The LCMS has those who are heading down the same path.
The ELCA will fade, and the LCMS might also, but the Gospel and Cross will remain.
btt
All baptized Catholics are born again. Even using the Evangelical definition of being born again, i.e., accepting Jesus as their Savior, most practicing Catholics would likely say yes if asked properly and not in the context of some Protestant proselytizing them.
“All baptized Catholics are born again. Even using the Evangelical definition of being born again, i.e., accepting Jesus as their Savior, most practicing Catholics would likely say yes if asked properly and not in the context of some Protestant proselytizing them.”
I will challenge both your statements.
First, As for your insinuation that the low percentage of born again Catholics is due to some context of Protestant proselytizing”, Barna arrived at their figure from the following definition:
“Born again” Christians are those who say they “have made a personal commitment to Christ that is important in their life today and also say that when they die they know they will go to Heaven solely because they have confessed their sins and accepted Jesus Christ as their savior.”
And thus if you disagree then you must you must have done your own extensive polls. Of course, i myself would not accept this definition, as it leaves out repentance. And the work of an evangelist is not to get people to say a prayer but to be an instrument of the Holy Spirit in convicting men of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment (Jn. 16:7-11), so that they will want to call upon God for mercy in “repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ” (Acts 20:21; cf. 26:22).
(Acts 24:25) “And as he reasoned of righteousness, temperance, and judgment to come, Felix trembled, and answered, Go thy way for this time; when I have a convenient season, I will call for thee.”
Further on your contention that Catholics would say that they are born again, having spoken with thousands of Catholics about their salvation, i disagree. I would challenge you to go ask even a hundred Catholics, “when were you born again?”, or are you born again?”, without helping them with their soteriology. Around here Catholics far more often pointedly state that are not born again, while the response to to the question, “Why should god allow you into Heaven” is most typically, “because i am a good person and or a Catholic”, and which is not the response of a soul who came to Christ because he, like the criminal on the cross or the penitent Publican - or any other Biblical conversion - came to Christ knowing they were destitute of any means whereby they may escape Hell or gain Heaven by relying on the merit of their works, and thus cast themselves on the mercy of God in Christ. For “The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit” (Psa 34:18).
As regards the actual issue of infant baptism, nowhere in Scripture was anyone born again by proxy faith, which is how the vast majority of Catholics were “saved.”
Not only does the Holy Spirit not provide any manner of clear record of infant baptism (paedobaptism) - an absence that is inconceivable, in the light of it being the primary means of entrance into the kingdom, according to Rome - but very critically, infants cannot fulfill the stated requirements for baptism, which is repentance (Acts 2:28) and whole hearted belief (Acts 8:36-38: which also best indicates immersion, and which fits the meaning of the word).
The attempt to justify salvation by proxy faith by invoking Mark 2: 1-12 (the healing of the palsied man) fails, as this man’s inability was only physical and not cognitive, and was obviously able to respond with heart faith to Christ. It would be a tremendous assumption to hold that this man did not desire healing or was unable to look to Christ for it. God can honor our faith in granting grace (affecting physical changes, or opening hearts and granting repentance), in response to our prayers and actions, but it is not salvifically effectual to them unless they respond. Otherwise you might as well baptize the dead as do the Mormons.
(Rom 10:9-10) “That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. {10} For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.”
In addition, justification is by imputed righteous, appropriated by Biblical faith alone, by which is not alone, but a faith that will confess and follow the Object (Christ) of faith (Rm. 3:9-5:1; Rm. 10:10; Heb. 5:9). But it is not by merit of works of faith that men are justified, so that it cannot be said that souls by their very works which have been done in God have truly merited eternal life (Trent, the sixth session decree on justification chapter xvi). If you want to invoke James, 2, see my comments here: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2042251/posts?q=1&;page=51
Finally, if most Catholics are born again by baptism, then you have a serious empirical problem justifying such Biblically, as by holding this position you have just made Hitler a Christian (to the polemical delight of atheists), as well as all those baptized by Rome, the vast majority of which manifestly poor Catholics, disagreeing with official church teaching in many ways, and liberal in their morals and doctrine, making them doubtful Christians. While you may seek to exclude such as Catholics we are not regular attenders (about half of those who ID themselves as Catholics), Rome count them as members, from Ted Kennedy to mafia hit men, and seldom are made to feel any real discipline, and at their funeral real hope is conveyed that such will find final acceptance into Heaven in lieu of their Catholic baptism and the power of mother church, and a modicum of good works. And such is the gospel that is effectually conveyed by Rome, and is derived from her core presumption to supremacy, but which is not that of the Scriptures, and which condemns such a corruption (Gal. 1:6-9).
Sorry, I am not buying your tendentious anti-Catholic arguments. Believing Catholics most certainly know that Jesus Christ is their personal lord and savior. They may not put it into the precise verbal formula approved by Catholic-hating fundamentalist Protestants, and they are more than likely to tell off rather than respond accurately to someone who disrespects their church and faith and who does not even believe that the Catholic Church is Christian. So of course the average believing Catholic may tell a Protestant proslytizer that they are not “born again”, since that has become a fundamentalist, Protestant buzzword. I would counsel you not to judge the state of someone else’s soul. As for baptism, it is a sacrament, fully biblical and founded by Christ, that washes away all sin, including original sin. Baptismal regeneration has always been the doctrine of the Christian Church. As Paul said, in baptism we die with Christ, that we may be raised up with him in newness of life.
In terms of infant baptism, Peter baptized the whole household of the centurion, which would have included infants, and circumcision is a type of baptism.
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