Posted on 07/01/2008 1:03:52 PM PDT by Red Steel
Fellow Blog Talk Radio compadre David Zublick over at Heading Right says, “Maybe Not“.
I noted back here that when Kos produced - not a birth certificate - but a certificate of live birth there were several discrepancies noted that pointed to the fact - aside from the convenience - that the document was most likely forged. Since Obama has failed to produce a birth certificate, in-spite of several calls to do so, is telling indeed.
I was born in 1958 in the State of Florida and I can get a birth certificate for ten bucks. I doubt Hawaii was so backward in 1961 that it cannot produce a copy that he could show.
The news orgs are NOT looking into this, but some of us can snoop where others cannot. We’ll see what we can find. Fellow Blog Talk Radio compadre David Zublick over at Heading Right says, “Maybe Not“.
I noted back here that when Kos produced - not a birth certificate - but a certificate of live birth there were several discrepancies noted that pointed to the fact - aside from the convenience - that the document was most likely forged. Since Obama has failed to produce a birth certificate, in-spite of several calls to do so, is telling indeed.
I was born in 1958 in the State of Florida and I can get a birth certificate for ten bucks. I doubt Hawaii was so backward in 1961 that it cannot produce a copy that he could show.
The news orgs are NOT looking into this, but some of us can snoop where others cannot. We’ll see what we can find.
UPDATE: Looks like some have filed the ole FOIA request to force the issue. Meanwhile Doug Ross thinks it’s legit.
One note, Certificates of Live Birth are NOT considered proof of citizenship in many states including Florida, while in other states it is.
Again, why not then just produce the damn certificate, it clears up the whole thing. Until we see that, the issue isn’t closed.
His bias is evident from his use of pejorative phrases like "GOP Dirty Tricks Operatives".
http://polarik.blogtownhall.com/2008/06/20/was_obamas_certificate_of_birth_manufactured.thtml
In case you haven’t already seen this analysis of the typeface, etc.
MM
Thx, Red, but I’m looking for older images. These are the images posted NOW. First, I assume you’ve seen the polarik analyses on townhall.com; if not, check them out, specifically the one about the seal. As he points out, there are different versions of this out there. And while the left has most assuredly gotten rid of the original versions (which do not contain a seal), I’m hopeful that someone out there has a copy of the original images first posted on KOS/Smears. Also note that on the AtlasShrugged page, the one that makes the case that this is all a diversion manufactured by Obamabots, there is reference to a much higher-resolution version of one or more of these images. I’m trying to gather all the versions I can, because there is a type of analysis that NO ONE has yet done that I can do very quickly.
I’m slammed with work this week and just don’t have time to comb the web in search of these images, but if anyone can find them, I will indeed make time for the analysis.
MM
1. You said: “wonder where you found 7 FAM 1131.6-2 Eligibility for Presidency.”
It’s on p. 8 of the URL I posted:
http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/86757.pdf
2. You said: “His birth doesn’t appear in Vital Statistics;”
What does this mean? In my world, Vital Statistics is an annual compendium of aggregate birth statistics, by state or for the nation. It doesn’t list individual births. Someone did claim that each state keeps a master book with consecutive listings of births as recorded/certificate. Are you saying someone has checked that book and discovered no listing for BO on his alleged birth date? If so, that’s news to me.
3. You said: “some of his Kenya relatives claim they were present at his birth in Kenya;”
OK, but unless someone proves the Hawaii BC is fraudulent, any court is going to accept a written record over decades-old family recollections, especially given that BO’s father had several wives (and progeny?) in Africa. Hence, they may simply be remembering a different birth.
4. You said: “the Wayne Madsen update claims that official birth records of his birth in Kenya have been located there and are now in DC.”
Great, but in light of the “Whitey” tape fiasco, I’ll believe claims such as this when I see them. I don’t know Wayne Madsen, but it’s clear this country is full of people who are shameless when it comes to grabbing 15 minutes of fame.
I’ve seen it and I disagree with it on most points.
If you could get a good enough image off the template form on the photobucket site for the I. B. Aphorgerie form, you might well be able to see the seal where it is here.
I have in my drawer, probably fifty squeeze seals that will print a seal ring without the certificate data if you squeeze properly. I don't think any of that proves anything.
The certificate issue works like this. It is in form and substance a certified representation by a public official that the data on the certificate is representative of the data on the public record.
If this certificate had a number, an observable signed or initialed publication and data reference, and a seal, it would have some credibility even though this information was not clearly readable. None of those things is present on this certificate where they are found on other Hawaii Birth Certificates.
This certificate is defective in that it is not a real certificate and we know it is not a true copy of a certificate also because we can tell that the number is blanked out by digital process rather than redacted by cover; and because Photoedit discloses other deficiencies on the form itself. The purported certificate is a forgery.
When we talk and speculate what a true certificate might show, we are just speculating. Obama is developing near cult status among his supporters. He might be able to get someone in the Hawaii office of Public Records to certify something the records do not reflect. At this point, if a better certificate shows up, in any litigation setting, counsel will seek to obtain access to the real data in the records to which the certificate references.
I tend to doubt they will produce a better fake. They have a problem with the number, even if they know what the proper sequence is because a number in the proper sequence might be someone else's number. Further, there are real civil and criminal penalties for this kind of conduct and even civil servants in Hawaii are likely to be aware of them.
In reflecting on the invasion of the Passport records. There are several possibilities. Obama did it to remove a Birth Certificate that was clearly fake on its face; or was inconsistent with the fake he has now produced; or certified to data other than what appears here. The Clinton's did it to find out what it said. Someone else did it to obtain evidence on the subject.
After thinking about it, Obama's pain when he was complaining about the invasion was evident and real--he would not have needed to acknowledge the invasion at all if he was the instigator. Someone else is now aware what Obama did to produce a passport birth certificate.
Here it is. Have fun:
http://alanpetersnewsbriefs.blogspot.com/2008/06/obamas-birth-circumstances-review.html
My oldest BC image came from Obama's "Fight the Smear" site on 25th June at 12:02 AM. It was KOS who gave the Obama campaign their Obama birth certificate, go figure, and that BC does not have the hidden seal. You can have that one if you want?
Thanks for posting this. What intrigues me is that with your filtering, the crease at the top that was barely visible now is much clearer. But there’s also no evidence of any other creases. Someone had claimed there was a much fainter crease that ran either above or below Father’s Name: I sure don’t see any evidence of that.
As well,your filtered version certainly seems to show a seal, but according to the folks in Hawaii, they never issue these certifications without a signature. Even though it’s on the back, such signature is clearly visible on all the other Hawaiian BC’s that have been posted. Yet on Obama’s there’s nothing of that sort visible.
Notice that there are no equivalent puzzles that arise when one looks at the other BC’s posted and compares them to one another. It’s only Obama’s that seems to differ in various details that sort of makes you go “Hmmmmmmmm.”
I don't understand why the Obama people didn't just didn't scan both sides of the document in the first place.
-PJ
David,
“I have in my drawer, probably fifty squeeze seals that will print a seal ring without the certificate data if you squeeze properly. I don’t think any of that proves anything.”
Does the location of the seal in Red Steel’s filtered copy shed any light on this? On all the legal records I have with seals, they are much closer to the margin—else you’d need a seal with an implausibly large handle. If any of your squeeze seals is capable of placing the seal at that approximate location, this would rule out the theory. Admittedly, having zero of 50 seals not be able to come even within 2” of placing a seal that far from the edges doesn’t prove anything definitive, but would cast further doubt on its authenticity.
I haven’t been following the Obama BC threads yet but one poster on the TownHall blog makes what seems to me an important point: if Obama had received a real “Certificate of Live Birth” sent from the relevant office in Hawaii and then someone on his staff had scanned it to put it on the “Fight the Smears” site..... wouldn’t there be telltale signs that the document had been scanned?
This does not get directly at the issue of whether a valid BC exists or not, but surely if there is a plausible chain of State of Hawaii mails doc, Obama receives doc and staffer scans it, then there would be indications within the doc that it was a scanned image rather than something just cooked up in Photoshop??
And if it does become evident that the “Certificate of Live Birth” was cooked up for the “Fight the Smears” website, that would suggest that something very suspicious is going on??????
Thx again, Red. I already have this one. Please do let me know if you run across any of the others I mentioned.
MM
I can clearly see the date beneath the seal, but following your directions, I don’t see the smudging you refer to.
As for the Obama people, notice that it’s now been weeks that people have questioned the authenticity of this document: they clearly could have procured and posted another officially certified copy by now and/or gotten Obama to authorize the release of this record to anyone requesting it since there obviously isn’t anything private about it any longer. Indeed, he could put this whole thing to rest by authorizing the release of his FULL birth certificate, including full details about Mother, Father, whether birth was recorded as Legitimate or not. Both of them are dead and he’s already written extensively about them, including the fact that his father was a two-timing bigamist with pretty abysmal family values. What on the birth certificate possibly be more embarrassing to the memory of either parent than what Obama already has told?
The only thing I can think of “worth” trying to cover up is a) he’s shamelessly lied to us in his books about his parents: some voters might view that as important information to know before entering the voting booth; or b) he’s knowingly been using a fabricated birth record throughout his career to support a claim of citizenship he doesn’t have or to seek an office for which he is automatically disqualified: if so, the FBI might be interested in knowing about this.
In light of the foregoing, the fact that he hasn’t resolved this simple matter speaks volumes.
What does this mean? In my world, Vital Statistics is an annual compendium of aggregate birth statistics, by state or for the nation. It doesn’t list individual births. Someone did claim that each state keeps a master book with consecutive listings of births as recorded/certificate. Are you saying someone has checked that book and discovered no listing for BO on his alleged birth date? If so, that’s news to me.
OK well there isn't much of an available response to the rest of this stuff. It either ultimately comes in as evidence or it doesn't. We will find out.
The only thing that admits of a response is the Vital Statistics point. The newspapers in Hawaii of the day published each day, births and deaths and marriages of the preceding 24 hours. Someone has gone through and looked at library editions of those newspapers for August 3, 1961 to learn that nowhere in the first week of August is there publication of the birth of this guy under any of the available names. His mother doesn't appear anywhere as a mother either.
And he was born in a hospital. How many people would have been directly involved? Forty-seven years later--are they all gone or have forgotten? Nobody, not the taxi driver, the nurse, the admitting officer remembers anything? The hospital they originally named as the birth site wasn't built until several years after the claimed birth? Obviously it has no records of his birth; neither do any of the other hospitals in the area.
The only birth certificate you have is fraudulent--a fake. Obvious reason is that they can't produce a real certificate because he wasn't born there,.
Matter of fact, seals are readily available with longer reaches--I have one of those I know about and I know I have seen many others.
As you suggest, there just isn't anything out there embarrassing enough to justify his current posture. The issue is whether he is eligible to hold the office of President.
Thanks for the link, but I need something more concrete than another blog. I need to see quotes from his Kenyan grandmother and half sister and brother.
I am having more fun finding that direct quote from Obama’s Kenyan grandmother. I am suspecting that it has been purged from the internet. I hope I strike gold.
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