Shooting demo uses real bullets, injures 16 (in France)

cnn ^ | 6/29/08 | do the dhue

[do the dhue]

A military shooting demonstration in southeast France on Sunday left 16 people wounded, including children, when real bullets were used instead of blank ones, officials said.

[Lonesome in Massachussets]

FWIW, I know from experience that an M16 can fire automatically without a blank adapter (at a lower cycle rate of fire), perhaps not as reliably. There’s still plenty of back pressure without a blank adapter.

The blank adapters we used were bright red and conspicuous, you never had any doubt that they there.

[BuffaloJack]

Some years ago, Gene Hackman was filming a movie scene in Mexico.
Members of the Mexican Army were being used as extras and the scene involved having them shoot Hackman.
Hackman, just before the filming began, insisted on checking the weapons of the army extras himself. Someone had forgotten to give them blanks and they all had live rounds in their weapons.

[gridlock]

I wouldn’t discount the possibility that this was an intentional act, either. It would be interesting to hear a little more about the shooter.

[TalonDJ]

Some years ago, Gene Hackman was filming a movie scene in Mexico. Members of the Mexican Army were being used as extras and the scene involved having them shoot Hackman. Hackman, just before the filming began, insisted on checking the weapons of the army extras himself. Someone had forgotten to give them blanks and they all had live rounds in their weapons.

I as on an ROTC excercise once where we found live rounds on a belt of M-60 blanks. Fortunatly they were found before they were fired.

[70th Division]

All we did during AIT in the army was put a red flash suppresser in the end of the barrel and we fired blanks all day long. It was simple

[livius]

I just read - in a regular wire service story - that the French are saying it appears to have been a “criminal act.” Remember when the Brits uncovered a plot to get Muslim radicals into the British military and police force, and then activate them for terrorist acts? Sounds like somebody got away with it in France.

[null and void]

Thanks. I was looking for a follow-up story.

[hiredhand]

There's definitely something FISHY about this article! I've seen blank firing adapters before which screwed into the muzzle and expanded a rubber plug by screwing down the top....thereby blocking the bore AFTER the gas port so that blanks would cycle the weapon. Perhaps they were using this type and live rounds blew it out and continued to operate the weapon once it was gone? That's a real shot in the dark though, because the odds are that a bore obstruction even at the muzzle will quite probably render the weapon inoperable after the first round.

I think some jackass simply loaded the weapon with live rounds (after removing the blank firing adapter) and shot up a bunch of people. As has already been WELL explained here, it's not as simple as mixing live rounds with blanks.

[supercat]

Blank adapters needed for blank firing or modified movie guns that will prevent a real cartridge from all but destroying the firearm.

My understanding is that many movie guns use 8mm blanks which are not compatible with any sort of live ammunition. I read (don't remember where) that the 8mm blanks even have the primer on the "bullet" end of the cartridge, so it would be completely impossible to manufacture live ammunition that would work.

[supercat]

They probably used “exploding, sparking” bullets.

Regardless of what Mythbusters says, I've seen sparking bullets at a plinking range. They weren't tracers; I think they were steel bullets hitting rocks.

[DMZFrank]

You can’t conceal the recoil. You know if you fired a live round or not, especially if it is a full power rifle round.

[El Gato]

Even if the shooter thought he had blanks in his rifle it would never be pointed in the direction of another person.

Soldiers point their weapons, loaded with blanks and equiped with blank firing adapters, all the time. In addition to the BFAs they have something which detects the shot and fires a laser beam (IR, invisible) at the target. The system they use is called MILES, there are versions for Tank guns, machine guns, both light and heavy, the cannon on the Bradley and even for TOW missile launchers. But for anything larger than small arms, and usually for the COAX machine gun, they do a "dry fire" thing, which fires the laser.

They have rules though, such as minimum separation distance (10 yards IIRC, but don't hold me to that). There is also a similar system, which is more involved and a more representative simulation, formerly called MAIS, and now called OT-TES used for operational testing of weapons by the Army. There is also a version of MILES which also keep track of who shot who, and where both were at the time, or even all the time, so that exercises can be remotely monitored.