Revising HIV's History

ScienceNOW Daily News ^ | 25 June 2008 | Elizabeth Pennisi

[Sawdring]

So it wasn’t the CIA that created the virus? Since it was 100 years ago, perhaps it was James West and Artemus Gordon that made it.

[darth]

In a book that I read (forgot the title) they found HIV in a frozen blood sample from a Norwegian sailor who died in 1960. Apparently he caught it from a prostitute in an African port. The doctors saved the blood sample because he died so quickly from an unknown disease.

[ozark hilljilly]

Hepatitis C affects and KILLS more people than HIV or AIDS and is the leading cause for liver transplants...and yet, you never hear about it.

Squeaky wheels = grease.

Maybe because most of Hep C victims (at least in the US) are straight white guys in their 30’s, 40’s and 50’s?

[bert]

.....Gay monkeys?...

Queer sooty mangabeys

Apparently not all monkey are perverted

[Verginius Rufus]

I remember reading a newspaper article about a black teenager in St. Louis who was dying from a mysterious illness (in the 1960s, I think). The doctors saved a sample of his blood and/or tissue, and it was eventually determined that the teenager had had AIDS.

[Jeff Chandler]

If it’s contained to chimps queers and iv drug abusers, I don’t see the problem

But those chimps are so cute!

[Bullpine]

Typical homosexual behavior includes regular contact with fecal matter from oneself and from sexual partners, tragically reversing several centuries of learning about cleanliness, and thus several centuries of growing lifespan. Homosexual behavior makes no more sense than playing in the toilet.

All available evidence indicates that the lifespan of practicing homosexual persons is drastically shortened by their behavior. No reliable study indicates otherwise. The lifespan topic is taboo among homosexual advocates because the evidence is so damaging to their case.

[SunkenCiv]

· join list or digest · view topics · view or post blog · bookmark · post a topic ·
	Gods Graves Glyphs	Funny, there was no epidemic and no resulting massive campaign for condom use one hundred years ago. :') Thanks neverdem. Just adding to the catalog, not sending a general distribution. To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list. GGG managers are Blam, StayAt HomeMother, and Ernest_at_the_Beach
· Google · Archaeologica · ArchaeoBlog · Archaeology magazine · Biblical Archaeology Society · · Mirabilis · Texas AM Anthropology News · Yahoo Anthro & Archaeo · · History or Science & Nature Podcasts · Excerpt, or Link only? · cgk's list of ping lists ·

[neverdem]

Postscript: Just a few years ago, Africa held a big AIDs conference where, for the first time, the president of South Africa insisted that the Deusberg people at least be permitted to have equal time.

The African National Congress, the regime still in power in South Africa, was sponsored by Moscow during the Cold War as I'm pretty sure you know. I wouldn't let these clowns have any credibility.

[LS]

Well, regardless of who is sponsoring them, they are the first group to “look outside the box.” Given what we do, and don’t, know for sure about AIDs, it can’t hurt.

[neverdem]

This is simply amazing to me.

These guys are looking deeply into the origins of the HIV virus. Their time would be better spent trying to find where in the vast literature addressing this ubiquitous retrovirus that it is actually shown scientifically that HIV is the cause of AIDS.

But of course that would be a waste of time also, because that proof is not to be found in the scientific literature. It is just "a truth" that we are supposed to accept because "everyone knows it is so".

The use of viral culture and p24 antigen testing to diagnose human immunodeficiency virus infection in neonates. The HIV Infection in Newborns French Collaborative Study Group

Diagnosis of HIV-1 Infection in Children Younger Than 18 Months in the United States

Do you need more citations about the on the job infection of health care professionals, the reduction in mother to child transmission, aka vertical transmission, by giving the mother antiretroviral drugs around the expected birth of the kids. Just because it doesn't behave like traditional viruses, doesn't mean it isn't real. We don't know what we don't know.

[neverdem]

Ought to go great next to his research that shows that man never landed on the moon (and yes he proclaimed it).

I wouldn't be surprised, but do you have a link?

[InterceptPoint]

Do you need more citations ...

I'm sure HIV is contagious. And anti-viral drugs could help reduce HIV infections. And AIDS is real. That is all well and good, but it is not the issue that I addressed.

My issue is simply that I have seen no proof that HIV is the cause of AIDS. Lots of talk. Lots of agreement. Lots of assumptions but no clinical trials or laboratory evidence that anyone infected with HIV and left untreated is doomed to die of AIDS.

Is there any doubt that there are thousands if not hundreds of thousands of people in this country who are infected with the HIV virus (or at least would show positive on an HIV test if tested) who go through a full and happy life quite ignorant of that fact because they were never tested?

So the challenge is to show that HIV causes AIDS. To do so you need to find a reference in the scientific literature documenting that Koch's Postulates are satisfied for HIV as the cause of AIDS. If you cannot do that (and you can't) then you have no case.

[InterceptPoint]

Do you need more citations about the on the job infection of health care professionals ...

Actually I would interested in such citations if you have them. I tend to think the actual, not the projected, risk to health care professionals has been pretty minor.

[LS]

Those are good points against the Duesberg theory. Also, there is the fact that Duesberg had “offered” to have himself exposed to HIV, but never seems to have actually done it, always coming up with an excuse. Personally, I lean against Deusberg’s hypothesis and go with the view that it is, in fact, related to HIV, and also tend to think that it was the one strain of Oral Polio Vaccine that introduced SIV into the human population as SIV.

[neverdem]

Is there any doubt that there are thousands if not hundreds of thousands of people in this country who are infected with the HIV virus (or at least would show positive on an HIV test if tested) who go through a full and happy life quite ignorant of that fact because they were never tested?

With active hostilities in Iraq and Afghanistan, why does the U.S. military reject HIV antibody positive recruits while otherwise lowering standards for enlistment?

So the challenge is to show that HIV causes AIDS. To do so you need to find a reference in the scientific literature documenting that Koch's Postulates are satisfied for HIV as the cause of AIDS. If you cannot do that (and you can't) then you have no case.

Accidentally exposed healcare workers fulfill Koch's Postulates.

Update: Acquired Immunodeficiency Syndrome and Human Immunodefiency Virus Infection Among Health-Care Workers

Evidence that HIV causes AIDS

Until the mid-1990s, nobody claimed that HIV had fulfilled Koch's last two postulates. Even today, the proof is not quite perfect. But most scientists believe the evidence is now strong enough to put the case beyond all reasonable doubt.53

There is no single scientific paper that proves HIV causes AIDS. Instead there are tens of thousands of papers containing a wide range of evidence that, taken together, make the case overwhelming.

[InterceptPoint]

Let's take these one at a time.

Accidentally exposed healtcare workers fulfill Koch's Postulates.

Update: Acquired Immunodeficiency Syndrome and Human Immunodeficiency Virus Infection Among Health-Care Workers

You cannot fulfill Koch's Postulate with ONE CASE. Just read the summary. That's what it says and I doubt if the article makes any reference to Koch's Postulates (although anything is possible.) This is from the Summary with my emphasis:

"Acquired immunodeficiency syndrome (AIDS) among health-care workers in the United States results primarily from human immunodeficiency virus (HIV) infections that occur outside of the health-care setting. However, a small number of health-care workers have been infected with HIV through occupational exposures, and one such worker has developed AIDS after documented seroconversion."

I mean really. ONE WORKER does not equate to satisfying Koch's Postulates.

[InterceptPoint]

With active hostilities in Iraq and Afghanistan, why does the U.S. military reject HIV antibody positive recruits while otherwise lowering standards for enlistment?

Because they believe that HIV causes AIDS. That is the view of the U.S. Government. But they can't prove it and they don't bother. We are just all supposed to agree that it's true because that's the "right thing to do".

There is no proof that HIV causes AIDS. None.

[InterceptPoint]

Until the mid-1990s, nobody claimed that HIV had fulfilled Koch's last two postulates. Even today, the proof is not quite perfect. But most scientists believe the evidence is now strong enough to put the case beyond all reasonable doubt.53

There is no single scientific paper that proves HIV causes AIDS. Instead there are tens of thousands of papers containing a wide range of evidence that, taken together, make the case overwhelming.

Well you have made my case quite well. Koch's Postulates are not fulfilled and there is no paper or case study proving HIV causes AIDS.

That's what I told you. We are in agreement.

[neverdem]

Well you have made my case quite well. Koch's Postulates are not fulfilled and there is no paper or case study proving HIV causes AIDS.

HIV causes AIDS: Koch's postulates fulfilled.

Those authors beg to differ.

That's what I told you. We are in agreement.

No, we are not.

AIDS Denial is Pseudoscience