Posted on 06/07/2008 4:39:31 PM PDT by JRochelle
Gov. Rick Perry hinted Thursday that members of a polygamist sect whose children were recently returned amid a botched sex-abuse investigation should pack their bags, a newspaper reported.
Perry, who was in La Baule, France, for a European business conference, said that the state of Texas has an obligation to protect young women from being forced into marriage and underage sex, The Dallas Morning News reported in its online edition.
He also warned members of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints that child sex abuse won't be tolerated and even suggested that followers of the renegade Mormon sect may want to get out.
"If you are going to conduct yourself that way, we are going to prosecute you," Perry said. "If you don't want to be prosecuted for those activities, then maybe Texas is not the place you need to consider calling home."
Willie Jessop, an FLDS elder who lives in Utah, said Perry's remarks were shocking, particularly given a Texas Supreme Court ruling that forced this week's return of 440 sect children on the grounds that child welfare officials provided scant evidence that the children were in danger.
"It's an outrage that he should even make such gross and broad allegations," Jessop said. "He's listening to people that tell lies about the FLDS."
FLDS officials have accused the state of persecuting sect members for their religious beliefs.
Texas authorities raided the sprawling compound in west Texas in early April after three calls to a domestic abuse hot line, purportedly from a 16-year-old mother who said she was being abused by her middle-aged husband. The calls are now being investigated as a hoax.
Perry said that using the information state authorities had at the time, "they acted with the best interest of those children."
"If responsibility needs to be taken for (court edicts) saying that we stepped across some legal line, I'll certainly take that responsibility," the governor said.
Jessop, who has insisted that children at the ranch were not mistreated, has sidestepped questions about underage marriages at the Yearning for Zion ranch. But he did announce this week that the church would no longer sanction marriages of any girl too young to give legal consent.
Though the children have been returned, a criminal investigation continues.
“the fLDS cant afford to be cross examined in court...”
Yes they can. It will go something like this:
Q; Did you present your state issued ID?
A: Yes
Q; Did it show you were over 21?
A: Yes
Q: Did they hold you against your will
A: Yes
Q: (to another witness) Was the FLDS Member held Unconstitutionally?
A; Yes
No further questions your Honor.
FLDS is chomping at the bit to get into court.
FLDS is chomping at the bit to get into court.
_______________________________________________
So where are they ???????????
Many of their “men” are missing....
Q: (to another witness) Was the FLDS Member held Unconstitutionally?
Object your honor..is the witness an expert in Constitutional Law ????
That’s why I indicated that it’s another witness, he’s an Expert Witness; Constitutional Law.
As to chomping on the bit to get to court, they are. They’re getting ducks lined up, something CPS doesn’t know how to do.
Look, you and I could bat this around for the next 6 months until the case is filed, and it wouldn’t mean anything.
I’m just saying, even though this is a simple open and shut case, FLDS is going to use professionals, and when it’s all over CPS is going to look like a bunch of recalcitrant juvenile delinquents. This is going to cost Texas, and big.
Even though there is reason to believe there is something going on at these places, the foolish folks at CPS have pretty much screwed it up for everyone. No one is going to try this again for a long time.
Witness...”Warren Jeffs is perfect...”
They remind me so much of the famous “Paulinati”, the Ron Paul supporters who were so much smarter than the rest if us...
Ironic, not even the Texas Supreme court took this as a “Constitutional” question, but a procedural one. Did CPS meet it's own criteria, and the TSC decided at that time they did not, however they put in place some solid protections for the kids. Even more they did not raise a Constitutional question because in the real world CPS intervention acts have been upheld for years.
As far as the FLDS, they will never come to court because their case is a 50/50 shot a best, there is a predisposition against them among many and they have no interest what so ever in having their society, as it is, exposed. Indeed their “secrecy” is what got them in this fix in the first place. How could any reasonable person think they now what to expose themselves, which in a civil court they would have to be open to such scrutiny.
It's like Tom Beringer's character in Platoon said, there is the way things are and the way they ought to be. Seems the same holds here, there are some on FR that think their “logic" applies universally, that everything out there is cut and dry, that there has not been 200 years of legal precedent and court action, both good and bad, since the founders put quill to parchment. But out here in the real world, well it ain't necessarily so. Things have gone, for good or ill, as designed, the states acting as the states and the Fed acting as the Fed. Life goes on.
Black and white, as much as it would be nice,is really only seen in old movies now...
Perhaps it would help if you outlined the legal requirements to be a conspirator and show how it applies to various people within the FLDS.
And what would cause that question to be raised?
This is about a very simple, concise question, the constitutionally/unconstitutionally of the raids, and the behavior of the CPS. They are going to be on trial, Warren Jeffs was already in prison.
If there were justice in this case, some CPS employees would be joining him. I don’t expect true justice, and we all are in a little more danger for it.
Actually, I think the Judge was overruled in her decision that ANY of the children were in such danger. It would certainly have been possible for the CPS to submit evidence justifying the taking of any one child. They did not do so and the clear implication is that they could not do so.
[Perhaps it would help if you outlined the legal requirements to be a conspirator and show how it applies to various people within the FLDS. ]
I’m not going to do your homework for.
But I will direct you to Google Warren Jeffs and [bodyguards, hideaways, FLDS, Bountiful BC, arrest, etc.]
What you will find is that Warren Jeffs ran a network of people who protected him, that he was laundering money various ways, that he was reconstituting family as he pleased reassigning children and wives.
Since polygamy is illegal, it is likely Jeffs and the leaders of his band are subject to human trafficking laws (conspiracy applies), his redirecting of assets to cronies without clear title would also be subject to conspiracy interpretations. Indeed, I think RICO might come into play.
But I know, the FLDS are pure as the driven snow and the Constitution is at stake, so look the other way.
[still waiting for the proof that they are incestual child abusers.....oh yeah..i forgot.. you don’t have any and neither does the state.]
Go look up the name list, I posted a while ago. The crisscrossed parentage is obvious, so I guess the proof is right there.
By the way, the Barlows and Jeffs and Jessops and Steeds etc. go back as clans for 150 years, you should maybe go to the FLDS website and figure it out for yourself.
Unless you think incest is best?
That's amazing. There must be hundreds of arrests on the way. What do you figure is taking them so long?
“Conspiracy to commit a crime is a crime.”
So you admit that Warren Jeffs and his flock’s insistence on keeping child-brides is a crime, even if it was just planning, and not something he actually ‘did’?
“Worse problems.”
So the state of Texas was justified in it’s concerns, and investigations.
“That is why Colorado City is on the border.”
That’s not an answer. Unless you are saying that is why they specifically moved there, was to take advantage of the fact it crossed the state line.
Another, I don’t know answer. But Thanks for doing your best.
This, really, is the focus of all your arguments.
However, taking all the children was done completely legally. The only thing overruled was the court being able to keep them all in protective custody.
Let’s agree the CPS overstepped their bounds in making a decision to take all the children. Let’s agree that the Judge felt that the information she got justified it.
Let’s agree that the appellate and TXSC said that she failed to meet xyz criteria.
Now what? The children have been, or are being returned.
The families will be monitored, until the allegations have been thoroughly investigated, and either charges are put forth, or the whole case dropped.
What is not going according to the law?
” “The Constitution wasn’t written with Semi-autos in mind, as they did not even exist back then.”
Do I have to explain the error in your reasoning? “
“If pigs had wings they could fly.”
Not up to your usual level of comment, but, I’ll take what you got.
If, and when, are ‘future’, and this is now.
You can’t predict the future, and neither can I. Although I know that CPS has the legal right to go take the children, should the allegations be true. And I don’t mean all, but the ones in danger. Which is where the conversation gets sticky.
Anyway, have a good evening. I’m still looking forward to this case working out for the best of all concerned, but that’s just me.
your idea of “proof” is not enough to damn these people the way you have... if you don’t like our system of justice than I pray you are never on the wrong side of it... which means that unless you toe the liberal party line you are a target for future pogroms.
That is why Warren Jeffs is in prison isn't it? Do you know anything at all about the State of Utah vs. the FLDS?
Of course, but by their actions Texas has made it very hard to protect the children and prosecute the perps. Who has the children now?
That’s not an answer. Unless you are saying that is why they specifically moved there, was to take advantage of the fact it crossed the state line.
That is precisely why they moved there. Did you know that to get there Arizona Officials would have to drive through Utah? Do you know anything about the FLDS, Arizona and Utah disputes?
“The State of Utah does its best to uphold the law.”
Another, I don’t know answer. But Thanks for doing your best.
You asked why would Utah prosecute Warren Jeffs. The answer that for some reason you can't understand is that Utah tries to enforce its laws. I can't help you with reading comprehension problems.
However, taking all the children was done completely legally. The only thing overruled was the court being able to keep them all in protective custody.
Actually the only thing that was challenged was the holding of the children. The court found that to be illegal which presumes that the taking was illegal too. Also the taking of adults was illegal too. Or are you claiming that the CPS has the rights to kidnap adults?,
Let’s agree the CPS overstepped their bounds in making a decision to take all the children. Let’s agree that the Judge felt that the information she got justified it. Let’s agree that the appellate and TXSC said that she failed to meet xyz criteria.
That seems obvious.
Now what? The children have been, or are being returned. The families will be monitored, until the allegations have been thoroughly investigated, and either charges are put forth, or the whole case dropped.
What is not going according to the law?
It is going according to the law, now. The problem is that any evidence that CPS collected may be tainted and not usable in a court of law. Have you noticed that there have been no arrests or charges based on the DNA results. The CPS now has all of the the DNA results. Why do you think that there have been no arrests?
I found a story that states it wasn't Dale Barlow, but rather Merril Jessop they were looking for. What do you think of this?
Hearing Postponed For Woman Named In FLDS Raid
"According to the affidavit, Barlow said she was 16, that she had an infant daughter named Claire and that she had a "reassigned husband" named Uncle Merrill. According to the document, Texas investigators believed that was a reference to Frederick Merrill Jessop, the head of the YFZ Ranch."
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