USAF Heads Resign In Major Shake-Up

CBSNews ^ | 05 June 08

[PurpleMan]

The military and civilian chiefs of the Air Force are resigning, U.S. officials said Thursday.

Defense officials who spoke on condition of anonymity said that Defense Secretary Robert Gates asked Air Force Chief of Staff Gen. Michael Moseley and Air Force Secretary Michael Wynne to step

[tlj18]

we got troops on the ground 24/7, and this elitist pompous ass says having guys here in the u.s. controling drones in iraq is too stressful on his guys....

Well, that's the Air Force for you. There's not much love here in the Army for the Air Force.

[petitfour]

Huh? How about corruption in doling out contracts? Over and over again. The nuke stuff certainly has played a part, but there’s a lot more going on here than meets the eye. (did I post the wrong article link or something?)

[Red Steel]

Oh, I’d say it’s numerous things that have added up in Gates’ Air Force oh-crap score book. The lobbying for more F22s behind the SECDEF back. Them not meeting the demands for UAVs flying over Iraq. A two-star general not following contract procedures that supply the Air Force flying demonstration team. And the highly publicized loss of accountability of nukes from Minot AFB.

[CharlesWayneCT]

The Air Force Times said inspectors saw a security forces airman playing video games on his cell phone while standing guard at a restricted area. Another airman nearby was "unaware of her duties and responsibilities" during the exercise, the newspaper said.

Ouch.

[taildragger]

Maybe this is over the "B-3" ? info leaked within the last week.

Maybe it a battle of Manned vs. UAV for this Platform.

[RinaseaofDs]

It’s been my impression that the Air Force is sort of like Club Med.

A ton of frat going on between enlisted and officers, enlisted and senior enlisted.

[centurion316]

I'm thinking these firings/resignations have more to do with what is talked about in this biased editorial from the "Army Times".

I suspect you're right, but remember that the Army, Navy, and Air Force Times are all written by the same folks, Gannett (USA Today) and their bias is decidedly anti-military. In this case, it looks like the Air Force had it coming - perhaps they need to retire their foot-seeking missle.

[norton]

Acquisition was also mentioned in an earlier TV report but no depth or expansion.

If anything, AF should be ripped on the process used to award tanker contract - whether it's the right AC or not aside and benefits to Alabama aside (?) the award was a foregone conclusion.

That said, AF has always believed itself to be above the herd and has always been dominated by techies, nukes, and fighter pilots. I can easily imagine them dragging their feet on non piloted platforms that mere ground pounders would control.

[Southack]

"Even during WWII, there were generals and admirals who were too afraid to fight. I recall a fascinating account in the weeks before the D-Day invasion of Europe, of a general who complained to Eisenhower that the plans would lead to catastrophe and unacceptable losses."

The U.S. landed 6 Army/Marine divisions in all of Normandy on D-Day, 1944. The Germans had more than 44 Wehrmacht and Panzer armored divisions for the defense.

Traditional military thought was that we'd be slaughtered.

[Fundamentally Fair]

we got troops on the ground 24/7, and this elitist pompous ass says having guys here in the u.s. controlling drones in iraq is too stressful on his guys....what a blithering idiot..don’t let the door hit ya dude

So, you think having more troops in the AOR...and all of the support they need...is a good idea?

[Fundamentally Fair]

It’s been my impression that the Air Force is sort of like Club Med. A ton of frat going on between enlisted and officers, enlisted and senior enlisted.

Where did you get that impression?

I tell ya what, for a place that is supposed to support the troops, there seems to be a lot of slamming the USAF here lately. Yeah, it's the Chair Force, Zoomies, Club Med...ha ha...

There's no sense in me writing any more. Note to self: stay off of these threads.

[K-oneTexas]

Excuse me. Not wanting to contribute their fair share. Too many years in the field for me to accept that line.

There are Airman over the world, including the sand box as well as other places pulling their weight every day. Some places actually 'in civilization' and some in remote boonies that no -ne sees or hears about. Active Duty, Reservists and National Guardsmen standing beside and along with the US Army, US Marines, US Navy and US Coast Guard. Doing daily what they do ... provide exemplary service to their country.

For USAF Reservist over the years, including last year prior to my retirement, flew upwards of 80% of all transport missions ... hauling everyone (regardless of Service) and their equipment where it needed to be. Also flying patrol and cover for ground forces.

You must also remember that the total number of service members is controlled and capped by Congress. Ad of 2007 legislation:
US Army - 520,000 (36% of Total Force)
US Navy - 373,830 (26%)
US Marines - 186,209 (13%)
US Air Force - 328,270 (23%)
US Coast Guard - 39,121 (3%)
For a total of 1,449,428 service members

All service personnel in all branches are serving exceptionally in trying times. There is no need to slight any of them. Their commitments are world-wide not just in the sand box. Their ability to perform to must be measured against their total commitment world-wide and their numbers and the mission they perform ... this is where you measure pulling their weight. All Services are pulling their weight. Not all missions can be rated similarly, say taking a hill (Army or Marine) vs flying patrol or escort duties. Like apples and oranges.

More than likely this 'disagreement' is over matter of policy, high-up policy on global/macro things. If its drones, build more ... you would actually be surprised to see how they are utilized and by whom. If its airframe then what is the mission ... not who's the constituent. If it's leadership failure to complete mission objectives, then find new leaders.

With civilian oversight of the military I can assure you that they they have differing views. When that happens the military always loses.

I could tell stories about the Air Force ... but none of them include folks being somewhere and not pulling their weight, working their a**es off. Oh yes, when time allows and work is over, we can parting like all get-out. But that is the exception in my experience. I've worked from the squadron to the NAF level stateside and overseas ... and what slackers there were we canned.

Sorry if I'm rough but I don't easily accept comments like that cause they reflect on the men and women in the field. Many my friends still out there.

[Dumpster Baby]

IMO, the neither the shipment of triggers, nor the subsequent reports of the incident, were accidental.

That's a very interesting observation! Mind games with the commies? It would be wonderful if it were true. LOL

[Southack]

"If I had to guess, it's resistance to some sort of proposed change in mission capabilities and/or force structure."

Safe to say.

[tobyhill]

The Air Force was told to get the drones up and running in Iraq and Afghanistan for 2 years now but it’s been like pulling teeth in getting it going. The Air Force has purposely tried to distance themselves from these combat situations because they might miss the next air show.

[PurpleMan]

“The nuke stuff certainly has played a part,”

What???

Tell me, what’s more important? Nuclear weapons security (or gross lack thereof) or a stupid audio/visual contract worth $50 million?

[tobyhill]

When I was in the Army in the 80s and 90s I use to beg to go on field missions when it involved the Air Force because I knew I would get steak for dinner, cable TV and a room with maid service all for about a 2 hour workload and I'm not joking. I don't blame the Air Force for not wanting to go into combat and leave the perks.

[skr]

Well said.

[joe fonebone]

i do not understand your question, please elaborate...

[SevenMinusOne]

On the other side, the old hands say there is nothing like a pilot in the cockpit to make decisions, evaluate, etc.

Reality is we need both - And there is room from both - Another reality is....when your as$ is on the ground and you have to call in for a drop danger-close.......you want it from human eyes from a pilot above, I'll tell you that......not eyes from thousands of miles away looking through a straw-size hole...with even less SA...(of course if that is all you have as an option, if the sh*t is flying enough....you'll take it and wish for the best).