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I am a WWII buff and have read many books on all the Theaters for the US & ALlies as well as Germany, Italy and Japan, however never read about the Fischer-Tropsch process.
1 posted on 06/03/2008 3:11:10 PM PDT by K-oneTexas
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To: K-oneTexas; CygnusXI; Beowulf

ping


2 posted on 06/03/2008 3:13:02 PM PDT by steelyourfaith
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To: K-oneTexas

bookmark


3 posted on 06/03/2008 3:20:37 PM PDT by IrishCatholic (No local communist or socialist party chapter? Join the Democrats, it's the same thing.)
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To: K-oneTexas
I am a WWII buff and have read many books on all the Theaters for the US & ALlies as well as Germany, Italy and Japan, however never read about the Fischer-Tropsch process.

Really? Ever ask yourself why Rommel was in North Africa? Oil wells. The Fischer-Tropsch liquification process was used to make diesel out of coal, but it was even more inefficient than this article makes it out to be, and wasn't used until very late in the war, after Germany lost it's crude oil sorces in North Africa.

Similarly, the reason the Japanese invaded the Philippines was so they could control that part of the Pacific and get crude oil from Indonesia (Dutch East Indies.)

4 posted on 06/03/2008 3:20:48 PM PDT by Yo-Yo (USAF, TAC, 12th AF, 366 TFW, 366 MG, 366 CRS, Mtn Home AFB, 1978-81)
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To: CaptainAmiigaf; Mrs. B.S. Roberts
A faaaascinating read.


5 posted on 06/03/2008 3:22:00 PM PDT by Bloody Sam Roberts (The secret of Life is letting go. The secret of Love is letting it show.)
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To: K-oneTexas
never read about the Fischer-Tropsch process

Some historians don't focus much on science and technology.

6 posted on 06/03/2008 3:22:50 PM PDT by Right Wing Assault ("..this administration is planning a 'Right Wing Assault' on values and ideals.." - John Kerry)
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To: K-oneTexas

Now, here’s some black power that can do us some real good.


7 posted on 06/03/2008 3:25:25 PM PDT by Bigg Red
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To: K-oneTexas
Image hosted by Photobucket.com iirc they also had cars that ran on coal heated by a wood fire in the trunk and the coal offgas ran the engine...
9 posted on 06/03/2008 3:28:47 PM PDT by Chode (American Hedonist ©® - CTHULHU/SHOGGOTH '08 = Nothing LESS!!!)
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To: K-oneTexas

Who’s selling the stock, or the technology? I’m game to buy.


13 posted on 06/03/2008 3:31:39 PM PDT by pray4liberty (Watch and pray.)
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To: K-oneTexas

The environmentalist have already shot this down.


14 posted on 06/03/2008 3:35:12 PM PDT by tobyhill (The media lies so much the truth is the exception)
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To: K-oneTexas

Absolutely, 100% perfectly feasible - I’m working on a potential CTL (coal-to-liquids) project right now. You know what? It would probably already be under construction, but the folks that have to invest their hard-earned cash (we’re talking billions, not millions) are worried about the US government imposing European-style CO2 regulations on our country. So (unfortunately, IMHO) the bottom line is this: the D@mocrats (and Jack McCain) want to wipe out our universally acknowledged advantage in solid energy resources (we’re the ‘Saudi Arabia of Coal’), and impose permanently escalating energy prices on the American people, by mandating caps on CO2 emissions. Converting coal to liquid fuels emits substantial quantities of CO2 (but then, so does breathing). So just when we’re in a position to finally achieve energy independence, CTL may be DOA, courtesy of junk science & people like Jack McCain & ‘Babs’ Boxer...


15 posted on 06/03/2008 3:35:53 PM PDT by Who is John Galt? ("Sometimes I have to break the law in order to meet my management objectives." - Bill Calkins, BLM)
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To: K-oneTexas

“I am a WWII buff and have read many books on all the Theaters for the US & ALlies as well as Germany, Italy and Japan, however never read about the Fischer-Tropsch process.”

Funny you should say that. Mitt Romney actually brought this up in his Presidential campaign and was skewered for it. The usual nonsense about having the audacity to refer to the Nazis and the like.

http://boards.washingtoncaps.com/index.php?showtopic=52839&st=0&p=986286&#entry986286


20 posted on 06/03/2008 3:48:34 PM PDT by CaspersGh0sts
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To: K-oneTexas
One last tidbit: based on what I've read, CTL would fly at only ~$45.00 per barrel.

FACT: oil has been selling for more than $45 per can for quite some time.

FACT: we have more coal than we know what to do with.

FACT: the D@mocrats have been forcing you to pay extra for your gasoline, every single day of the week, ever since oil hit ~$50 per can (do you even remember when it was that cheap?).

Congratulations!

I literally LAUGH every time the price of gasoline goes up, because I know for a fact that cheap energy is still out there, it is still available today, and the folks who 'qualify' as American voters doen't want to hear it. (I don't make a penny off it, but I still laugh... ;>)

LMAO!!!

28 posted on 06/03/2008 4:30:59 PM PDT by Who is John Galt? ("Sometimes I have to break the law in order to meet my management objectives." - Bill Calkins, BLM)
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To: K-oneTexas

Fairbanks Alaska is doing a $1 million study on the feasibility of coal to fuel conversion here.


29 posted on 06/03/2008 4:33:39 PM PDT by RightWhale (We see the polygons)
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To: K-oneTexas
My Energy Manifesto:

* Cease all ethanol production. It takes away from food production and the unintended consequence is higher food costs. As diesel prices go up, the cost of farming tips the balance of cost to make ethanol a bad idea. Just say "no" to ethanol! Even Jimmy Carter says that diverting farm production from food to fuel is dumb – even HE gets it.

* Immediately create only ONE "blend" of gasoline and cease regional "boutique" blends which are stupid, costly, and meaningless. Even if this is the "cleanest" blend, just make it ONE and be done with it. Trucking custom blends around the country is wasteful.

* Lift the restrictions in order to drill for oil in Alaska, Gulf of Mexico, and other sites in the CONUS as a matter of national security.

* Encourage the petro industry to construct state-of-the-art refineries and/or retrofit current and dormant ones and crank up production for our newly-accessed oil in the CONUS.

* Make all “carbon credit” scams unlawful. Discrediting Algore should have been a slam-dunk a long time ago. Stop electing Reps who buy into the Global Warming / Global Cooling / Climate Change Hoax. CO2 is not our enemy!

* Construct SEVERAL, regional Pebble-Bed Modular Reactors (or other similar modern designs) that are not considered "breeders", are rechargeable, and cleaner than any current nuclear generator design. Breeders are OK, but PBMR's are better. DO SOMETHING NUCLEAR to resolve energy problems.

* Use the residual heat from the reactors above to process motor fuel from coal and/or shale. Even though Clinton "stole" some of the best coal reserves, we still have a lot to use.

* Become independent enough to make the cartels (i.e. OPEC) inconsequential.

* Convince local taxing bodies to lift or cap the sales tax on gasoline so that as gas prices go up, the local tax collectors don’t see a windfall revenue jump at the expense of the consumer. The Federal government could compel the states (and locals) to cap the fuel taxes.

If you squint real hard, and read between the lines, the ‘manifesto’ will require the dismissal of all RINOs and LibDems and the election of some clear-minded conservatives to even consider any of the above.

30 posted on 06/03/2008 4:58:02 PM PDT by SERKIT ("Blazing Saddles" explains it all.....)
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To: K-oneTexas

bump, BTTT, and bookmark.

IF...IF... we’re going to go down the road of government involvement in the energy market, we’d be far better off giving the money in research grants to find new alternative sources and production processes than boxing ourselves in with nonsense like ethanol and wind power.


31 posted on 06/03/2008 5:00:58 PM PDT by lesser_satan (Cthulu '08! Why vote for the lesser evil?)
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To: K-oneTexas
The efficiency figures in the article are a bit misleading. The energy from the nuclear reactor will not go into a Carnot Cycle engine, hence has a theoretical limit of full 100% conversion into chemical energy stored in the fuel (in practice there will be losses). However, the auto or truck engine using the resulting liquid fuel will have the same efficiency as current auto and truck engines, of the order of 30%. This isn't an argument against this process, just a caution that the numbers aren't as good as the article makes them look.

It has always struck me as inefficient to burn coal to power the conversion of coal to liquid fuel. You end up with far less than half the original coal energy in the liquid fuel itself. Even with energy from a nuclear reactor to drive the reaction, less than half the energy gets stored in the final product. However, using energy from a nuclear reactor, you don't produce any CO2 to get the energy to drive the reaction. That alone makes it worth trying.

32 posted on 06/03/2008 5:00:58 PM PDT by JoeFromSidney (My book is out. Read excerpts at http://www.thejusticecooperative.com)
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To: K-oneTexas; Allegra; big'ol_freeper; Lil'freeper; TrueKnightGalahad; blackie; Larry Lucido; ...
We need to start building Pebble Bed Modular Reactors to produce heat and steam for making electricity, powering the coal for the Fischer-Tropsch process to produce fuel and the Bergius process for hydrogen as an future alternative and heat for desalination to take saltwater from the coasts of America and pump it inland as freshwater. That would make us truly independent from foreign oil and help solve the coming world wide water crisis.

However, I don't see this coming about in the few years I have left because the Liberal Democrats will never let it happen and I surely do not see it under the nObama regime.

36 posted on 06/03/2008 5:44:01 PM PDT by Bender2 ("I've got a twisted sense of humor, and everything amuses me." RAH Beyond this Horizon)
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To: K-oneTexas

The German process was real and worked, although it was expensive.

South Africa use a similar process called SASSOL to make liquid fuels during the UN embargo over apartheid.

While the chemistry is apolitical, the opponents of even maintaining our lifestyle point to the non-PC nature of the previous users of the process to discredit it.

While I usually dislike government intervention, one of the ideas I really like is a US Government price support of liquid fuels at an equivalent of $100/barrel of oil. Essentially a variable tax on lower production cost fuels. One of the big drawbacks to investment in alternative energy sources is that if the price of oil goes down, you lose all of your money. A government price support prevents that. Of course with the current oil price the tax would be zero.

Once we develop a liquid fuel technology other than oil, the economies of scale will eventually reduce the price significantly.

Wouldn’t it be wonderful for the US to lead the world in alternative fuel production? We could be selling to other nations and collecting obscene profits instead of a bunch of camel-jamming muslims.


37 posted on 06/03/2008 5:52:56 PM PDT by CurlyDave
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