Sure you hate it now, but just wait until you drive it!
Posted on 06/01/2008 5:10:45 PM PDT by Diana in Wisconsin
(Demand picking up as price of gas soars and economic incentive rises)
How's this for oil-shock value: Scott Olson of Brookfield went to his car dealership to get the oil changed on his sport utility vehicle and drove home in a new SUV that gets nearly twice the gas mileage.
"I was filling it up every five days," he said of his old Ford Escape. "Now I'm only filling it up every eight or nine days."
Olson, 43, now the proud owner of a blue Mercury Mariner hybrid SUV that gets nearly 40 mpg in city driving, is part of the latest crowd of buyers bothered by fuel costs who are now in the hunt for hybrid electric vehicles.
Until recently, most hybrid buyers could be characterized as having a "green streak," concerned about the environment and pollution released from tailpipes, said John Dolan, hybrid sales specialist at Smart Motors in Madison.
"But once oil got to $100 a barrel and on toward $130, we're starting to see more and more people who don't even characterize themselves as environmentalists," he said. "They're just looking at buying a hybrid as a dollars and cents thing."
The surge in the price of crude oil and gas prices has gutted demand for large sport utility vehicles and pickup trucks, creating pain for Wisconsin's economy, given that the state's only remaining auto plant produces gas-guzzling SUVs. The Janesville factory will see one of its two production shifts eliminated this summer - and there's concern that more cutbacks will be included when General Motors Corp. announces restructuring plans this week.
Payback time quickens
With about 3% of the new-vehicle market, hybrids remain a niche, in part because there aren't many models available and because they carry a higher price, said Jack Nerad, chief market analyst at Kelley Blue Book.
"Though interest in hybrids and sales of hybrids have increased in correlation with the fuel price run-up, hybrids are still a long way from becoming a dominant technology," he wrote in an article published by Kelley.
But because of high gas prices, when carmakers announce their May sales on Tuesday, "compact car and hybrid market share are predicted to reach an all-time high," Jesse Toprak, executive director of industry analysis for Edmunds.com, wrote in a forecast published late last week.
The payback time for buying a hybrid is also quickening, as gas prices have jumped more than 77 cents a gallon across the country over the past year. In Milwaukee, gas prices this weekend stand at $4.06, up 63 cents from this time last year.
In a study released in April, Intellichoice.com says hybrids stack up favorably against their gasoline-powered counterparts, not only because of fuel costs but also because of lower insurance rates.
What's more, the price premium that buyers pay for a hybrid at the dealership carries over to when they trade it in, said James Bell, Intellichoice.com publisher and a hybrid owner.
Bell's own hybrid resale provides a telling example. He bought a 2004 Toyota Prius for $26,000, and ended up selling it two years later for $24,000. The Prius, which had about 40,000 miles on it, sold less than an hour after he listed the vehicle on a few Web sites.
Bell admits that living in southern California, his case may be a little extreme, because hybrids carry a bigger share of the vehicle market there than in other parts of the country.
John Griffin, general manager at Griffin Ford, where Olson bought his Mariner, said a 3-year-old hybrid can fetch several thousand more than its gasoline-only counterpart.
Economy cars see boost
Hybrids are in demand - and customers who want one will have to wait. That's far different from a year ago when Toyota dealerships sported plenty of Priuses.
Many customers aren't willing to wait, and they're instead buying more fuel-efficient compact cars.
"The trend that we're seeing that's interesting now is people with full-size SUVs and pickups going into economy cars," said Griffin.
Many are families who own two large vehicles and are keeping one to use on the weekend to haul a boat, but they're buying a small car for commuting.
The Griffin dealership typically has 40 Focuses in stock but "it's tough to build up more than five right now," he said. "And the Fusions are in low stock as well."
Hybrid electric vehicles get better fuel economy in city traffic, which is when the electric motor takes over, so for some drivers who do a lot of highway driving it may make more sense to buy an economy car rather than a hybrid, experts say.
Price increases and tax credits also play a role in the buying equation. Tax credits for the Toyota Prius have expired, while credits remain for domestic hybrids. Also, Toyota, whose Prius accounts for half of all hybrids sold, recently increased the price of the Prius and Camry hybrids because of rising commodity costs, Dolan said.
The Madison Toyota dealership has sold more hybrids than any other Toyota dealers in the Midwest, according to Dolan.
"We have a waiting list of about 60 (hybrid) cars right now," he said. "This is taking us back to where things were when the gas price hit $3 a gallon. We had a six- to eight-month waiting list."
Today, waiting lists of weeks and months are again common, which makes Olson that much happier about his new SUV.
He likes the fact that he can still have an SUV for winter driving and for carting around his golf clubs, but loves the fact that he's getting 40 miles to the gallon in the city and 35 on the highway.
"I was a little concerned about the extra price at first," he said. "As soon as I test drove it I knew this was something that down the road it's going to save me a lot of money."
Just another example of how stupid, and reactionary people are.
Hybrids are a bad idea.
I'm curious why you think so.
Yes of course. And the batteries are expensive to replace. However, the more hybrid drivers there are, it’ll decrease the demand so it’ll benefit all of us in the long term.
Sure you hate it now, but just wait until you drive it!
Yea, but the batteries have a 8 or 10 year warranty on them. You can buy one and then sell it before the warranty runs out. Prius’s have a high resell value. I don’t think I’d keep one over the 8 year mark. I figure you by one and keep it for 6 years, sell it, and get a new one.
He traded in an Olds Vista Cruiser for that. My first car was Vista Cruiser (bought my parent’s car). It hurt to watch that car get crushed in the movie.
As we said in other threads, it doesn’t make sense to trade in a good, working car just to get better gas mileage — you’ll never make your money back.
I think it does make sense, when you HAVE to buy a new car, to buy a better performing car, or if you can swing it, a small car to use for trips where you don’t need the gas-guzzler.
Think about it, very few people trade off bad cars anymore. If it's related to reliability, mostly we trade simply for the assurance of less trouble, not because we are having trouble with our cars and trucks.
I got my hybrid 5 years ago. While I’ve saved a bundle on gas, I also saved in some unanticipated ways.
I’ve had no tickets since getting the car. You find that you tend to drive it slower with the constant feedback on performance and mileage. I was a real leadfoot before, and I got picked up, in the many traps around here, at least once every couple of years before.
I’m no enviro, just a cheapskate.
I relish the lower gas taxes I pay and note that the authorities are already looking into useage, rather than fuel based tax systems to recover the lost revenue from more efficient vehicles. While I file for expenses, I end up retaining more than enough to pay for a new battery, which I won’t need for at least another 4 years.
I live in Hollywood and almost every Hybrid/Prius I see has either a Kerry/Edwards sticker (yes, until now) or an Obama sticker...
Everytime I;ve always imagined ramming my pick-up into those lib cars.
The Prius causes more total pollution than an H2. The same people that buy into the hybrids are the same ones who believe in the bio-enthanol fuel fiasco. It’s a gimmick.
Is there anyone out there who would have knowledge of this?
There’s not a plug-in hybrid available from a manufacturer at present; the few out there are “hacked” in the aftermarket, and you have to pay a considerable amount for the conversion, which voids the warranty. As far as KW usage, the rate itself varies widely from region to region and state to state. But, I’ve seen articles in a few magazines and websites that say it’s a dollar or so, for an overnight charge.
I can't seem to find one that has a 23,000+ lbs. GVW. that can pull my backhoe and my dump trailer.
Until the day I see a Hybrid that can pull 20,000 lbs of trailer and cargo, you can have your tin foil car ... and all the friggen SMUG that comes out of their owners pie holes. Gees, you'd think these people look at themselves as the 2nd Coming of Christ or something.
> Hybrids are a bad idea.
Then why, over a half century ago, did the railroads
ditch their coal-burners for hybrids (”diesels” are
actually diesel-electric).
I drive a 50 mpg turbo-diesel car. Acceptable mpg.
Goes like heck when needed. Wastes energy every
time I brake, and going down most hills.
I’d like the replacement to be a
turbo-diesel-electric, with regenerative brakes,
solar assist, and user-specified battery capacity.
A Prius under no conditions is economical for me to buy, short of someone giving it to me for free. Selling your "good" old paid off car to pay $25K or more for a fuel efficient new one makes no sense. Do the math on the payments for the new car vs the difference in gas mileage for what you have. Just how many years does it take to pay for itself? If I believed GW was real, maybe I'd bite the bullet and take the loss for the future of the USA.'s. This is Al Gore BS
> As we said in other threads, it doesn’t make sense to
> trade in a good, working car just to get better gas
> mileage — you’ll never make your money back.
Particularly since you are also trying to dump a high
MPG car into a market that doesn’t want it.
Anyone contemplating a trade to higher mpg really needs
to run the numbers. Even at today’s fuel prices, vehicle
replacement cost, less trade-in/resale value, amortized
over the miles you expect to drive with it, is often
still the largest expense per mile.
Had a Ford Escape Hybrid.
Just about the right size, easy to park, good visibility, fairly spiffy performer when it need to be, got good gas mileage (33-35 mpg all around).
Just one little problem.
It can’t PULL anything.
No trailer at all. Not even a small one of less than 140 pounds tongue weight and about 1000 pounds GVW.
Not that it didn’t have the power, that was not the question. But Ford will not provide a lighting harness needed to make the trailer legal.
Legal Requirements. The vehicle has a “CVT” transmission, and Ford won’t warrant the transmission if the vehicle is used for towing, as the transmission may not be able to hold back on hills, or may exhibit excessive slippage with any more than a modest load.
And hey, if it could tow 1,000 pounds, somebody, somewhere was going to hook on a 5,000 pound load.
BAD publicity if one of them gets burned out in the mountains, and is running away downgrade.
We ended up trading back for a very similar-looking 3.0 V6 with a four-speed automatic.
Just about the right size, easy to park, good visibility, fairly spiffy performer when it need to be, but the gas mileage is only about 22-24 mpg.
But it can pull that trailer like nobody’s business.
Kind of wish we had kept the Buick....
Why is that so? Is it true of all hybrids or just the Prius? How are you figuring "total pollution?" Electricity production? Battery disposal? I'm really curious because my wife's beginning to talk about buying a hybrid Camry.
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