Texas Polygamy Case Based on a Lie

I'm sure there are lots of Conservative Athiests. One only needs to hand out on the Crevo threads to see them.

But what kind of conservative?

My guess is that most Atheist Conservatives, are fiscal conservatives only and could care less about social conservatism.

It seems to me, that a true atheist, being a mere byproduct of random chance evolution would have mostly self interest at heart.

Therefore they'd be for minimal taxes and minimal government interference in their lives, but they wouldn't care about social issues.
They wouldn't feel an obligation to feed the poor. Let them starve, that's evolution at work, right? Taxes for such issues is theft, right?
They probably wouldn't care much about support for traditional families either. Let the gays marry if they want to, maybe they'll spread less disease. Marriage isn't holy it's just a contract. Polygamists? Whatever floats your boat? Government should have no say?
If people want to destroy themselves with drugs, let them?
Just give us the right to shoot them dead if they pick a daffodil out of my front yard?
Am I anywhere close?

The name calling, projection and ideation continues for all to see:

Legrande: As usual running dog is lying, it was comments on the CPS’s kidnapping of adult women. And that the federal penalty for kidnapping under the color of law can be the death penalty.

So, you are saying the CPS are subject to the death penalty for their efforts in Eldorado????? Tres bizarre.

Legrande: Missed the SCOTUS decision did you? Look it up, ignorance is no excuse. You really don't have any kind of legal background or knowledge at all, do you? That was a rhetorical question.

By your extraterrestrial logic, it would be illegal for Law Enforcement to act until after a murder occurred. Since that is patently absurd, I think you are digging a hole to China at this point.

Legrande: Just more lies as usual. I do not defend the FLDS and you can't prove that JS was polygamous.

No, you don't defend the FLDS, any more than you habitually defend the LDS (wink, wink). And regarding JS polygamy:
********************
Fanny Alger is Joseph's first known plural wife, whom he came to know in Kirtland during early 1833 when she, at the age of 16, stayed at his home as a housemaid. Described as “a varry nice & Comly young woman,” according to Benjamin Johnson, Fanny lived with the Smith family from 1833 to 1836.

Martin Harris, one of the Three Witnesses to the Book of Mormon, recalled that the prophet's “servant girl” claimed he had made “improper proposals to her, which created quite a talk amongst the people.” Mormon Fanny Brewer similarly reported “much excitement against the Prophet…[involving] an unlawful intercourse between himself and a young orphan girl residing in his family and under his protection.”

Former Mormon apostle William McLellin later wrote that Emma Smith substantiated the Smith-Alger affair. According to McLellin, Emma was searching for her husband and Alger one evening when through a crack in the barn door she saw “him and Fanny in the barn together alone” on the hay mow. McLellin, in a letter to one of Smith's sons, added that the ensuing confrontation between Emma and her husband grew so heated that Rigdon, Frederick G. Williams, and Oliver Cowdery had to mediate the situation. After Emma related what she had witnessed, Smith, according to McLellin, “confessed humbly, and begged forgiveness. Emma and all forgave him.” While Oliver Cowdery may have forgiven his cousin Joseph Smith, he did not forget the incident. Three years later, when provoked by the prophet, Cowdery countered by calling the Fanny Alger episode “a dirty, nasty, filthy affair.”

Chauncey Webb recounts Emma’s later discovery of the relationship: “Emma was furious, and drove the girl, who was unable to conceal the consequences of her celestial relation with the prophet, out of her house”.

SOURCE: Richard S. Van Wagoner, Sidney Rigdon, p.291

At least one account indicates that Fanny became pregnant. Chauncy G. Webb, Smith's grammar teacher, later reported that when the pregnancy became evident, Emma Smith drove Fanny from her home (Wyl 1886, 57). Webb's daughter, Ann Eliza Webb Young, a divorced wife of Brigham Young, remembered that Fanny was taken into the Webb home on a temporary basis (Young 1876, 66-67). Fanny stayed with relatives in nearby Mayfield until about the time Joseph fled Kirtland for Missouri.

Fanny left Kirtland in September 1836 with her family. Though she married non-Mormon Solomon Custer on 16 November 183614 and was living in Dublin City, Indiana, far from Kirtland, her name still raised eyebrows. Fanny Brewer, a Mormon visitor to Kirtland in 1837, observed “much excitement against the Prophet … [involving] an unlawful intercourse between himself and a young orphan girl residing in his family and under his protection” (Parkin 1966, 174).

*******

Legrande: No, you are a sexual deviant because of the comment that you made when you posted to the picture. Implying that we could get our kicks looking at a 12 year old girls proves that you are one sick pervert.

You know what, you deserve zero consideration. While I doubt you are gratified by those pictures, you are certainly gratified being an enabler and collaborator with those who are child molesters. When I see a thread started by you that discusses ONE SINGLE POSITIVE ASPECT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT AGAINST THE FLDS then you will have some credibility. But so far all I see is an enabler.

FC:And the hysterical claims that we are a Cabal - though clearly a Mormon cabal also exists.

Legrande: Could syphilis cause that kind of reasoning?

Wow, now that's clever Legrande, it puts you in the same class logician debaters as a sailor on port leave. So on this thread alone you have called me a running dog, sex pervert, cabal member, syphilitic, liar, member of a lynch mob.

So one of two things are true, either I am the worst person to have ever walked the face of the earth, OR you have a few marbles loose and can only attempt to win arguments through crude epithets. While I guarantee I am not syphilitic as you graciously claim, the above does give rather ample evidence of your being afflicted by Turet’s syndrome.

FC: At some point above, you lost all credibility, not only to myself but to anyone following this discourse. All I’m doing is slowly prying out the real you for all to see, a very vindictive name caller who though an atheist pines for the good old days snuggling at the feet of Hugh Nibley.

Legrande: You really, really should seek counseling.

Once again, a unique and clever remark from you I have not encountered since, oh, about sixth grade. Maybe you should suggest counseling instead for your friends in the FLDS, you know, the grown men and women there who have the mental capabilities of 13 year olds.

Do you have any evidence that Joseph Smith was a polygamist? If you do I am sure that FastCoyote, colorcountry and many other members of your cabal would love to see it because I have pounded them into submission on that particular little topic.

You HAVE?

Dang; I must have blimked!

I do not condone polygamy.

What is your attitude about the past history of it in your church?

Run along little boy, I don't suffer idiots gladly.

Then how does we explain your masochistic streak that compels you to tilt at the cabalistic windmills here?

And don't ever send me any more of your sick twisted porn you pervert.

Dang!

I show up late AGAIN; and miss the good porn at 224!

You Cabal members think that just because you repeat lies that it somehow miraculously makes them true.

We've learned well!

(I wonder how THESE folks learned?)

Early in the century	Later....

“A lie told often enough becomes truth.”	"The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly - - it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over."
*Vladimir Lenin.*	*Joseph Goebbels*

Or with all of those wives JS must have thousands of polygamous descendants? Where are they? All you would need is one little DNA test.

That's for pointing out ANOTHER failed prophecy!!

THE
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS

SECTION 132

51–57, Emma Smith is counseled (commanded) to be faithful and true; 58–66, Laws governing the plurality of wives are set forth.

51 Verily, I say unto you: A commandment I give unto mine handmaid, Emma Smith, your wife, whom I have given unto you, that she stay herself and partake not of that which I commanded you to offer unto her; for I did it, saith the Lord, to ^aprove you all, as I did Abraham, and that I might require an offering at your hand, by covenant and sacrifice.

52 And let mine handmaid, Emma Smith, ^areceive all those that have been given unto my servant Joseph, and who are virtuous and pure before me; and those who are not pure, and have said they were pure, shall be destroyed, saith the Lord God.

53 For I am the Lord thy God, and ye shall obey my voice; and I give unto my servant Joseph that he shall be made ruler over many things; for he hath been ^afaithful over a few things, and from henceforth I will strengthen him.

54 And I command mine handmaid, Emma Smith, to abide and ^acleave unto my servant Joseph, and to none else. But if she will not abide this commandment she shall be ^bdestroyed, saith the Lord; for I am the Lord thy God, and will destroy her if she abide not in my law.

55 But if she will not abide this commandment, then shall my servant Joseph do all things for her, even as he hath said; and I will bless him and multiply him and give unto him an ^ahundredfold in this world, of fathers and mothers, brothers and sisters, houses and lands, wives and children, and crowns of ^beternal lives in the eternal worlds.

56 And again, verily I say, let mine handmaid ^aforgive my servant Joseph his trespasses; and then shall she be forgiven her trespasses, wherein she has trespassed against me; and I, the Lord thy God, will bless her, and multiply her, and make her heart to ^brejoice.

Whatever HAPPENED to Emma???

Eliza was a devout Mormon. At age 38, she became Joseph Smith's 14th plural wife (in addition to Smith's lawful wife, Emma). In 1842, after learning Eliza was pregnant, Emma Smith beat Eliza with a broomstick and knocked her down a flight of stairs, causing Eliza to miscarry Smith's baby.

Wow!!

I guess ol' Emma got VAPORIZED by GOD!!!

We know that multiply him thing sure didn't work out!

I have names for many of you cabal members, how do you like the name Goebbels? Maybe you can come up with a better one.

I see that you are AWARE of the technique!

Since you're an EX-Mormon, I would expect so.

To whom it may concern, let’s not make it personal.

OFFICIAL DECLARATION—1

To Whom It May Concern:

Press dispatches having been sent for political purposes, from Salt Lake City, which have been widely published, to the effect that the Utah Commission, in their recent report to the Secretary of the Interior, allege that plural marriages are still being solemnized and that forty or more such marriages have been contracted in Utah since last June or during the past year, also that in public discourses the leaders of the Church have taught, encouraged and urged the continuance of the practice of polygamy—

I, therefore, as President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, do hereby, in the most solemn manner, declare that these charges are false. We are not teaching polygamy or plural marriage, nor permitting any person to enter into its practice, and I deny that either forty or any other number of plural marriages have during that period been solemnized in our Temples or in any other place in the Territory.

One case has been reported, in which the parties allege that the marriage was performed in the Endowment House, in Salt Lake City, in the Spring of 1889, but I have not been able to learn who performed the ceremony; whatever was done in this matter was without my knowledge. In consequence of this alleged occurrence the Endowment House was, by my instructions, taken down without delay.

Inasmuch as laws have been enacted by Congress forbidding plural marriages, which laws have been pronounced constitutional by the court of last resort, I hereby declare my intention to submit to those laws, and to use my influence with the members of the Church over which I preside to have them do likewise.

There is nothing in my teachings to the Church or in those of my associates, during the time specified, which can be reasonably construed to inculcate or encourage polygamy; and when any Elder of the Church has used language which appeared to convey any such teaching, he has been promptly reproved. And I now publicly declare that my advice to the Latter-day Saints is to refrain from contracting any marriage forbidden by the law of the land.

WILFORD WOODRUFF
President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

President Lorenzo Snow offered the following:

“I move that, recognizing Wilford Woodruff as the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and the only man on the earth at the present time who holds the keys of the sealing ordinances, we consider him fully authorized by virtue of his position to issue the Manifesto which has been read in our hearing, and which is dated September 24th, 1890, and that as a Church in General Conference assembled, we accept his declaration concerning plural marriages as authoritative and binding.”

The vote to sustain the foregoing motion was unanimous.

Salt Lake City, Utah, October 6, 1890.

EXCERPTS FROM THREE ADDRESSES BY
PRESIDENT WILFORD WOODRUFF
REGARDING THE MANIFESTO

The Lord will never permit me or any other man who stands as President of this Church to lead you astray. It is not in the programme. It is not in the mind of God. If I were to attempt that, the Lord would remove me out of my place, and so He will any other man who attempts to lead the children of men astray from the oracles of God and from their duty. (Sixty-first Semiannual General Conference of the Church, Monday, October 6, 1890, Salt Lake City, Utah. Reported in Deseret Evening News, October 11, 1890, p. 2.)

It matters not who lives or who dies, or who is called to lead this Church, they have got to lead it by the inspiration of Almighty God. If they do not do it that way, they cannot do it at all. . . .

I have had some revelations of late, and very important ones to me, and I will tell you what the Lord has said to me. Let me bring your minds to what is termed the manifesto. . . .

The Lord has told me to ask the Latter-day Saints a question, and He also told me that if they would listen to what I said to them and answer the question put to them, by the Spirit and power of God, they would all answer alike, and they would all believe alike with regard to this matter.

The question is this: Which is the wisest course for the Latter-day Saints to pursue—to continue to attempt to practice plural marriage, with the laws of the nation against it and the opposition of sixty millions of people, and at the cost of the confiscation and loss of all the Temples, and the stopping of all the ordinances therein, both for the living and the dead, and the imprisonment of the First Presidency and Twelve and the heads of families in the Church, and the confiscation of personal property of the people (all of which of themselves would stop the practice); or, after doing and suffering what we have through our adherence to this principle to cease the practice and submit to the law, and through doing so leave the Prophets, Apostles and fathers at home, so that they can instruct the people and attend to the duties of the Church, and also leave the Temples in the hands of the Saints, so that they can attend to the ordinances of the Gospel, both for the living and the dead?

The Lord showed me by vision and revelation exactly what would take place if we did not stop this practice. If we had not stopped it, you would have had no use for . . . any of the men in this temple at Logan; for all ordinances would be stopped throughout the land of Zion. Confusion would reign throughout Israel, and many men would be made prisoners. This trouble would have come upon the whole Church, and we should have been compelled to stop the practice. Now, the question is, whether it should be stopped in this manner, or in the way the Lord has manifested to us, and leave our Prophets and Apostles and fathers free men, and the temples in the hands of the people, so that the dead may be redeemed. A large number has already been delivered from the prison house in the spirit world by this people, and shall the work go on or stop? This is the question I lay before the Latter-day Saints. You have to judge for yourselves. I want you to answer it for yourselves. I shall not answer it; but I say to you that that is exactly the condition we as a people would have been in had we not taken the course we have.

. . . I saw exactly what would come to pass if there was not something done. I have had this spirit upon me for a long time. But I want to say this: I should have let all the temples go out of our hands; I should have gone to prison myself, and let every other man go there, had not the God of heaven commanded me to do what I did do; and when the hour came that I was commanded to do that, it was all clear to me. I went before the Lord, and I wrote what the Lord told me to write. . . .

I leave this with you, for you to contemplate and consider. The Lord is at work with us.

(Cache Stake Conference, Logan, Utah, Sunday, November 1, 1891. Reported in Deseret Weekly, November 14, 1891.)

Now I will tell you what was manifested to me and what the Son of God performed in this thing. . . . All these things would have come to pass, as God Almighty lives, had not that Manifesto been given. Therefore, the Son of God felt disposed to have that thing presented to the Church and to the world for purposes in his own mind. The Lord had decreed the establishment of Zion. He had decreed the finishing of this temple. He had decreed that the salvation of the living and the dead should be given in these valleys of the mountains. And Almighty God decreed that the Devil should not thwart it. If you can understand that, that is a key to it.

(From a discourse at the sixth session of the dedication of the Salt Lake Temple, April 1893. Typescript of Dedicatory Services, Archives, Church Historical Department, Salt Lake City, Utah.)

What kind of 'Leadership' is THIS???

compared to...

Hebrews 11:35-40
35. Others were tortured and refused to be released, so that they might gain a better resurrection.
36. Some faced jeers and flogging, while still others were chained and put in prison.
37. They were stoned ; they were sawed in two; they were put to death by the sword. They went about in sheepskins and goatskins, destitute, persecuted and mistreated--
38. the world was not worthy of them. They wandered in deserts and mountains, and in caves and holes in the ground.

So much for an 'Everlasting Covenant' that thundered out of Heaven!!!

Well; it DID last about 47 years!

"Inasmuch as laws have been enacted by Congress forbidding plural marriage...I hereby declare my intention to submit to those laws..."

~ Wilford Woodruff, 4th LDS President

The Mormon church Organization; based in Salt Lake City, does not practice Polygamy any more.

They decided to stop the practice for fear of losing all their worldly goods.

It was banned in 1890!.

Emma is the reason that I am confident that that Joseph Smith never practiced polygamy.

Oh?

ELIZA might claim otherwise!

Then why did 'GOD" threathen EMMA to FORGIVE her husband his 'sins'? [D&C 132:56]

And... if you've seen their PICtures... you'd know WHY!!

I am a climber.

We've noticed ;^)

LeGrand Richards

That's for pointing out ANOTHER failed prophecy!!

There is no such thing as a true prophecy. It is impossible to predict the future.

Then why did 'GOD" threathen EMMA to FORGIVE her husband his 'sins'? [D&C 132:56]

Are you trying to imply that JS was sinless?

” There is no such thing as a true prophecy. It is impossible to predict the future.”

Wanna bet? I bet you that the Obamnable SnowMan will continue to unsuccessfully pull off transparently deceitful ‘snow jobs’ on the American public to distract from the fact that he really is a bast*rd, that he was a practicing Muslim, etc.

While I am on a prophesying rear, I bet that the texas CPSPersons will not ‘fess up’ to anything, that MS Judgie PP will remain on her bench, and that the sun WILL set in the West.

;-)

Notice whom posted the thread, then notice the ego trip and blatant projection found in posts such as 156, 189, 222, 229, 230 ... the tarbaby syndrome is in full display; don’t be duped into feeding the poor thing’s lusts for attention.

So, you are saying the CPS are subject to the death penalty for their efforts in Eldorado????? Tres bizarre.

I am saying that anyone who kidnaps someone, by falsely using the law, is guilty of a crime that is punishable by death. Do you need a reference?

By your extraterrestrial logic, it would be illegal for Law Enforcement to act until after a murder occurred. Since that is patently absurd, I think you are digging a hole to China at this point.

That is almost correct. Law enforcement has no obligation to act until after a crime has been committed. In your world policemen somehow have the power to read minds and know what someone is going to do. I guess that explains your view of the CPS, you think that they can predict the future.

No, you don't defend the FLDS, any more than you habitually defend the LDS (wink, wink). And regarding JS polygamy:

This is getting tiring, please provide contemporaneous evidence or DNA results. How in the world could JS have had all of those wives and no heirs, except through Emma?

You know what, you deserve zero consideration. While I doubt you are gratified by those pictures, you are certainly gratified being an enabler and collaborator with those who are child molesters. When I see a thread started by you that discusses ONE SINGLE POSITIVE ASPECT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT AGAINST THE FLDS then you will have some credibility. But so far all I see is an enabler.

I doubt that you will ever see me post an article that supports any law enforcement agency. By your logic that makes me an enabler of all crime? LOL What you have shown is that you get your kicks spreading kiddy porn, and that makes you one sick pervert.

Wow, now that's clever Legrande, it puts you in the same class logician debaters as a sailor on port leave. So on this thread alone you have called me a running dog, sex pervert, cabal member, syphilitic, liar, member of a lynch mob.

I see that the truth hurts. Maybe you should learn not to lie or spam people with your sick twisted porn.

So one of two things are true, either I am the worst person to have ever walked the face of the earth, OR you have a few marbles loose and can only attempt to win arguments through crude epithets. While I guarantee I am not syphilitic as you graciously claim, the above does give rather ample evidence of your being afflicted by Turet’s syndrome.

Well, at least you don't deny that you are a liar or a pervert, that is a start.

Wanna bet? I bet you that the Obamnable SnowMan will continue to unsuccessfully pull off transparently deceitful ‘snow jobs’ on the American public to distract from the fact that he really is a bast*rd, that he was a practicing Muslim, etc.

That does sound like a prophecy doesn't it : ) Except that it sounds like what has already happened : )