Posted on 05/22/2008 10:46:31 AM PDT by ElkGroveDan
SAN ANGELO, Texas - A state appellate court has ruled that child welfare officials had no right to seize more than 400 children living at a polygamist sect's ranch.
The Third Court of Appeals in Austin ruled that the grounds for removing the children were "legally and factually insufficient" under Texas law. They did not immediately order the return of the children.
Child welfare officials removed the children on the grounds that the sect pushed underage girls into marriage and sex and trained boys to become future perpetrators.
The appellate court ruled the chaotic hearing held last month did not demonstrate the children were in any immediate danger, the only measure of taking children from their homes without court proceedings.
“And the check is in the mail. “
And so is the evidence. Apparently.
Uh, no. The women were *not* arrested. They were detained illegally. If they CPS workers were arrested, then later exonerated, then they would be released.
The very people who know where all the children have been moved to, and who would be the ones to return the children to their proper families, you want in jail?
If they don't have records for each child which includes their location, then they *really* need to be fired! lol!
OK, to sum up my perspective: The state workers broke the law and that is a very serious problem. They may have actually tainted information which could've been used to imprison criminals. They lied and I am one of those people who becomes *very* upset when my government lies. (Yes, I hold people in power to a higher standard than the rest of us minions.) Do you understand how this abuse of power could (and will) be turned on *anyone* who they disagree with philosophically?
But I'd like a clearer look at your perspective. Are you OK with the actions of CPS and the judge? Is your main concern for protecting the kids? How do you want the situation to be handled?
Believe it or not, protecting the kids is my main concern. If crimes were committed, I want the perpetrators in prison and away from the kids. I'm also worried about these sheltered kids being thrown into a *very* rough foster care system. I truly believe that upsetting their lives to this extreme is actually more damaging to their minds than being in the cult. All reports say that the mothers were loving, patient and gentle. To go from that to G-d knows what has to be traumatic.
A long-term, at home observation period could've revealed much more in a less horrifying way.
I'm going to bed now and I'm very much looking forward to reading your reply in the morning. Thanks for giving my brain a workout! :-)
Even if that’s true, that dosn’t give them the right to come in and take every child in the complex away from his or hr parents. That’s government overreach.
Yet, that’s exactly what they did. Elian writ large.
Suppose that there is a guy in your housing development who abuses his kids. Does that give the government the right to take away the kid next door who helps with your lawn?
“I’m going to bed now and I’m very much looking forward to reading your reply in the morning.”
Thanks... because it will probably take all night to type a response to it, since I have my hands tied behind my back and I’m typing with my nose.
elkfersupper: “My Great-Grandmother was 13 when she gave birth to my Grandmother, after having been married at the age of 12 in a Baptist church.
humblegunner: “I would like to see the cults worshipping government interference in every aspect of our daily lives broken up.”
My married grandmother gave birth to my mother when she was 14. My grand mother’s father, my great grand father, was an ordained Baptist minister. This “CULT” of Baptist ministers with daughters getting married and having children at 14 should have been “busted up” centuries ago. Had they been properly disbanded and their children mainstreamed into the secular world preference, neither you nor I would be here to disrupt HG’s fantasy world with our intolerable existance.
“Uh, no. The women were *not* arrested. They were detained illegally. If they CPS workers were arrested, then later exonerated, then they would be released.”
I wasn’t clear on what I meant, and then I wasn’t clear on your answer, and now I see that it’s really a pointless diversion. So, If you don’t mind, let’s move on to more important things.? : )
“If they don’t have records for each child which includes their location, then they *really* need to be fired! lol!”
Of course. But, if you fire or jail all the CPS workers, whose gonna deliver them back to their families, and ensure they are going back to the ‘right’ families?
” Do you understand how this abuse of power could (and will) be turned on *anyone* who they disagree with philosophically?”
Yes. And I’ve seen it used here on F.R. many, many times, and not just on the FLDS threads.
“But I’d like a clearer look at your perspective.”
My, My, getting a little personal, aren’t we?
Is this like a strip search? : )
(Besides, just put my screenname into the SEARCH utility, and you can read every post I’ve made about the YFZ Ranch case)
I think I made it clear what I approved of, and what I didn’t.
(you can’t make me talk, copper. I knows me rights. ; )
Of course, I have said that from day one.
I think it’s proceeding rather well, the way it is, and considering the circumstances.
It is now likely, that many, if not all the children will be returned. If there is any truth to the allegations, I hope that is found out before this goes much further.
It is difficult waiting on the analysis of the evidence before the arrests can be made, or before an announcement there will be no arrests.
Which sounds good, except the FLDS would not allow any outsiders to stay on the grounds. How many CPS workers would have to have housing built so they could ‘live’ at the YFZ Ranch?
We are talking from 200-400 extra people who would need permanent housing. Who pays for that?
What law permits a ‘stranger’ from CPS to just move into your house?
“I was skewered by the pro foster care crowd,”
I’ve had my run-ins with them as well. None of them had any concept of the notion of reactive detachment and how it it is a common denominator with children in foster care.
And since you answered the same questions you posed to me, I get to go twice. : )
I consider that a given for every one I post to.
” I’m also worried about these sheltered kids being thrown into a *very* rough foster care system.”
The reports did state that these children were only being put in the ‘best’ of foster care homes. The state is ensuring that the children are allowed to continue with all the ‘legal’ doctrines, practices, and ‘rules’ about exposure to TV, etc.
However, after watching the VIDEO of the three FLDS women, then the three FLDS men, I would say some of these children would have a hard time just being exposed to any life , outside the YFZ ranch or other FLDS sect.
Two of the men, and one of the women were a can short of a six-pack. I mean no disrespect to God’s children, but it makes one wonder if they could survive in the reality of a large city.
Maybe it’s better they are there. Maybe it’s God’s plan.
But, I think the reality is that one man saw this as a way to declare himself GOD, or part of the Trinity.
That is what worries me. Is this a group of people who are easily used (hard working, devoted, follow rules without question), and if it’s true, what is the ‘right’ thing to do, in order to help them?
How do we get them to see they were being used, without destroying their faith?
And finally, since balance is important, are they the ones being used, or are we?
Thank You, my FRiend!
Oops. Posting over there would be like running through a mine field, carrying nitroglycerin in your backpack.
I’d rather stay around people who aren’t frothing at the mouth.
Well, wouldn’t you know it would happen before I could get done counting.
I went through the entire thread, and there was only ONE DELETED POST.
Now, it appears we have a second. I even missed getting to read it.
Oh well. TWO deleted posts out of over 1200 posts on one FLDS thread must be some kind of record.
“I could care less. Truth hurts. Furthermore, Sigmund Freud is not my spiritual or intellectual shepherd...”
Are you sure or are you just in denial?
“honors? Lindberg? Was he a friggin polygamist? what are you blaberring about?
As for the prophets —that’s what they are. Prophets. To be respected for thier prophecy.
My Lord Jesus Christ came to set us free from all that.”
Lindberg, one of the great American patriots, did have two wives from what I understand.
Also, did Jesus EVER question the prophets in any way? No, Did Jesus ever question polygamy? No.
True, it's possible. But they weren't the ones signing the warrant, so they weren't relevant to my point.
IIRC this Judge had pretty good credentials, and plenty of experience in child custody, child abuse cases.
Well, as hinckley buzzard pointed out, she got slapped quite nicely by the appellate court. The ABA Journal said: Her attitude is, "I may be right or may be wrong, but I'm not uncertain."
There was bad faith in the warrant process. Whether the judge was decieved or not, I don't know. She might not be uncertain, but neither am I--she was wrong.
How about from any other entity?
Welfare Fraud? Evidently the only welfare fraud was the fraud perpetrated by child welfare agents.
Child molestation? If it happened, then yes, go after the perp(s)...but by following proper and legal law enforcement methods. At this point, there aren't even any charges filed, though.
Polygamy? Even CPS doesn't claim they were all polygamists. Yet the children were taken from all.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.