NYT: McCain “sealed away” from the lessons of Vietnam

Hot Air ^ | 5/14/08 | Ed Morrissey

[Dawnsblood]

In the New York Times’ upcoming edition of their Sunday magazine, they take a look at John McCain’s divergent views of the Iraq War from those of his fellow Vietnam veterans. In The McCain Doctrines, Matt Bai reports that most of these colleagues (with the noted exception of Bob Kerrey) attribute McCain’s support for Iraq to the fact that he didn’t serve on the ground in Vietnam — and that his years as a POW somehow “sealed” him away from the war’s lessons:

There is a feeling among some of McCain’s fellow veterans that his break with them on Iraq can be traced, at least partly, to his markedly different experience in Vietnam. McCain’s comrades in the Senate will not talk about this publicly. They are wary of seeming to denigrate McCain’s service, marked by his legendary endurance in a Hanoi prison camp, when in fact they remain, to this day, in awe of it. And yet in private discussions with friends and colleagues, some of them have pointed out that McCain, who was shot down and captured in 1967, spent the worst and most costly years of the war sealed away, both from the rice paddies of Indochina and from the outside world. During those years, McCain did not share the disillusioning and morally jarring experiences of soldiers like Kerry, Webb and Hagel, who found themselves unable to recognize their enemy in the confusion of the jungle; he never underwent the conversion that caused Kerry, for one, to toss away some of his war decorations during a protest at the Capitol. Whatever anger McCain felt remained focused on his captors, not on his own superiors back in Washington.

[OldEagle]

"McCain did not share the disillusioning and morally jarring experiences of soldiers like Kerry, Webb and Hagel, who found themselves unable to recognize their enemy in the confusion of the jungle;"

Can anyone translate this for me?

[marron]

McCain did not share the disillusioning and morally jarring experiences of soldiers like Kerry, Webb and Hagel, who found themselves unable to recognize their enemy in the confusion of the jungle

Kerry, Webb, and Hagel's moral confusion has left them unable to recognize their enemy.

It is Kerry, Webb, and Hagel who did not have the experience of looking their enemy in the eye, day after day, year after year.

I would be willing to admit that McCain's military experience is not run-of-the-mill. But it gave him an insight into the enemy that few have had, thank God.

[razorback-bert]

Simple, Republicans are stupid.

[wastedyears]

“Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?”

:)

[muawiyah]

The Democrats running the US Congress gets you a brand new anti-christ every single time (for you guys who think you can have multiple anti-christs).

They have a bottomless appetite for genocide.

You know, the Nazis and the Cheka have to be reincarnated as somebody, but why as Democrat Congrescritters? Aren't there enough criminals in this world that they could just stick to them.

[torchthemummy]

And yet in private discussions with friends and colleagues, some of them have pointed out that McCain, who was shot down and captured in 1967, spent the worst and most costly years of the war sealed away, both from the rice paddies of Indochina and from the outside world.

And yet once again the premise is based on, with the exception of Bob Kerry (the DNC's new dirt job guy) anonymous sources.

Hey NYT - what did Obama or Hillary learn from their experience in Vietnam? Oh...Obama was too young and Hillary was a young woman. Well surely their military experience would have taught them that....oh yeah that doesn't apply either.

The Dems and their ever shifting standards. I would ask when their hypocrisy will end but the answer is clear - never.

[muawiyah]

There are already other interpretations. At the time one of the complaints supposedly filtering back to the World in letters home was that it was difficult to tell the difference between the civilians and the VC/NVA in the jungles of Vietnam because, alas, they all wore black pajamas.

This confusion supposedly made it difficult to fight the war.

The Left turned it into one of those deals that portrayed our soldiers as being too stupid to tell the difference between legitimate targets and innocent people.

They then turned that into the "baby killer" litany, and all the other false charges and nonsense they came up with.

The fact the writer even referenced that stuff is a demonstration that he is, in fact, an enemy of the people of the United States, and that he hates our soldiers.

This is why we need about a 10 day "Viet Nam War Restart" right here at home ~ just some freefire zones and you'd never see articles like the referenced piece of trash appear again.

[rgboomers]

“Jane Fonda said we’d all want to live under Communism if we only understood what it was.”

One of the funniest and at the same time saddest and most pathetic statements anyone ever said was by Jane Fonda. Here it is, the best I can remember it.

“If you really knew what communism is, you’d get down on your knees and pray for it.”

[Marysecretary]

For shame...

[Volunteer]

If the NYT is looking for a reason why no one buys their paper any more, then this is a perfect example of why.

Webb is a nut job who needs and ass whipping. Kerry is a self-promoting glory whore who lost an election despite a media that did everything it could to get him elected.

I don't agree with SEN. McCain on a lot of things, but in my book he served with honor.

[Holicheese]

“he never underwent the conversion that caused Kerry, for one” after spending 90 days as compared to 5 years having his limbs broken!

What a pantload this is

[DuncanWaring]

Wouldn’t it be nice to have had Laser guided bombs in Nam?

Actually, we did, but not until after John McCain was out of the bomb-dropping business.

Used them to take out one particularly infamous bridge (I don't recall its name) in the North.

[OldNavyVet]

“... that his years as a POW somehow “sealed” him away from the war’s lessons:”

This is liberal propaganda BS.

Thanks primarily to Lyndon Johnson, Vietnam war ground combat unit operations were mictomanaged by politicians in Washington ... and that damaged morale.

Given that Viet Nam lapse in morale, discipline suffered within the ranks ... and Combat Commanders were not allowed to enforce military discipline. Under those conditions, the top job of battlefield Commanders moved from winning to keeping their men alive.

Today’s all-volunteer Army doesn’t have such problems and it shows.

My source is my deceased brother who served in WW-II, Korea and Vietnam. He started as a private, worked his way up to being an Airborne E-6, went to OCS, worked his way to Airborne Infantry Captain, moved to reserves to fight for custody in a divorce, went back to active duty as a private (that happened to be qualifed to handle battlefield nukes), served under a Colonel in Korea until reinstated as a Captain, went into combat (25th Inf)in Vietman as a Major, later served a second tour in Vietnam and moved up to being an battalion commander (Americal Div) while along the Cambodian border, retired as a Lt. Colonel, and he’s now buried at Arlington.

Thanks to rational military thinking from our post-Vietnam Republican Presidents, today’s American military is doing a superb job.

[Holicheese]

I think we need a military service meter for the NYTs.

George HW Bush’s service = no good.
Bill Clinton’s lack of service = Good

George W Bush’s Service = Bad
Algore’s = Good

George W Bush’s service = invalid
J Forbes Kerry = GOOOOOD!

McCain’s service = BAD
Obama’s lack of service = good

So do I have it right?

[nascarnation]

The humorous part is that the NYT, even though primarily selling in liberal NYC, is fading fast as a business entity.
Nothing fails like failure, LOL

[stylin19a]

the rats can’t really want to go down that road...

[MarkL]

McCain did not share the disillusioning and morally jarring experiences of soldiers like Kerry, Webb and Hagel, who found themselves unable to recognize their enemy in the confusion of the jungle

Let me start by saying I will not vote for McCain as President. That said, I can be pretty sure that McCain knew EXACTLY who the enemy was in Viet Nam. It was the North Vietnamese, the ones who were torturing him at the Hanoi Hilton.

What he was really "sealed away from" was the fact that many here, back home, had joined in with the enemy as well, just like Kerry, Webb, and Hagel, if they couldn't recognize the enemy either.

Mark

[avacado]

"During those years [of McCain in a cage being tortured], McCain did not share the disillusioning and morally jarring experiences of soldiers like Kerry, Webb and Hagel,..."

LOL!!!! Emphasis mine.

How can a journalist seriously write this crap! So McCain is out of touch with the Vietnam War because he spent 6 years captured and tortured by the Viet Cong?

Are they really trying to pass that off as logic? LOL!!! It's shows that are damn scared of McCain.

[MarkL]

As for the bum who wrote this piece—Shame on him and on the NY Times for showing such a lack of sensitivity and decency for a man who helped defend their journalist’s freedoms..

The NY Times has no concept of shame. They still won't disavow Walter Duranty and his glowing descriptions of life under Stalin's Soviet rule in the Ukraine, while tens of millions were being systematically starved to death. Duranty knew the truth of what was going on, but refused to report it. And the times knew the truth as well, but decided to run Duranty's pieces instead.

Mark

[avacado]

" and in the case of Kerry’s group, targeting the assassination of elected members of Congress."

weegee, can you give me more information about this? I know Kerry was a Winter Soldier traitor but didn't know about targeting the assassination of elected members of Congress.