3 small-town jr. high kids suspended for sitting during Pledge (of Allegiance)

Minneapolis StarTribune (aka The Red Star) ^ | 5/09/08 | Paul Walsh - Staff Reporter

[MplsSteve]

Three small-town eighth-graders were suspended for not standing at the start of the school day Thursday for the Pledge of Allegiance.

"My son wasn't being defiant against America," said Kim Dahl, mother of one of the students, Brandt, who attends Dilworth-Glyndon-Felton Junior High School in western Minnesota.

Brandt told the Fargo Forum that Thursday's one-day in-school suspension, "was kind of dumb because I didn't do anything wrong. It should be the people's choice."

Kim Dahl said the "punishment didn't fit the crime. If they wanted to know why he didn't stand, they should've made him write a paper."

She said that Brandt has not been standing all year, and "all of a sudden it became an in-school suspension."

The district today is defending the punishments. The school's handbook says all students are required to stand but are not obligated to recite the pledge.

[exit82]

Mrs. Dahl’s boy wonder has not been standing all year. How special.

A few weeks ago, I was at Arlington NAtional Cemetery watching the changing of the guard at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier. The National Park Service guy watching the crowd sternly but quietly physically intervened with more than one adult and with children who were not standing. No disrespect tolerated here.

Then an amazing thing happened. After the changing of the guard, the crowd went to leave and they started talking—loudly. My heart sank as I wondered why it was so difficult for my fellow citizens to keep their yaps shut for just a few minutes in a place of reverance.

The guard stopped, clicked his heels, turned to the corwd and admonished them for not keeping quiet. Then he turned and resumed his duties.

You could have heard a pin drop. So many mouths dropped open, I was afraid birds were going to start building nests there.

But, d@mn, it was quiet after that!!!

[tatsinfla]

if anyone has not been to Arlington and witnessed the changing of the Guard they should....i will never forget my first trip there...i was awestruck....God Bless All that have served to keep this country free........

[Irish Eyes]

1 day in school suspension is harsh...??....omg what kind of punishment is that...??....back in the day we would have been bent over a chair and swatted with a paddle....maybe thats what we need more of to teach todays kids respect...obviously what they have been trying for years now isn’t working..............

Can't do that these days ...stunts the little darlings freedom of expression.

[WesternPacific]

Writing a paper is not a bad idea. Two years ago, we had a few Mexican students walk out of school in observance of some national protest thing. They were asked why they were protesting and none of them knew. They responded “You know, that Mexican rights stuff.”. Our principal placed all of them in In-School suspension until they completed a paper explaining why they protested. It took a while, but all of them either completed the paper or quit school.

[purpleraine]

I think people should always be forced to be patriotic. That treaches them respect.....for force.

[purpleraine]

No disrespect tolerated here.

This says all you need to know about freedom and how much others will tolerate when it offends them. Pathetic.

[tatsinfla]

i know, we will destroy thier egos...

[Publius Valerius]

The government can’t compel this sort of conduct. I’m not sure why schools continue to require students to participate and continue to waste taxpayer dollars litigating this issue.

[SERE_DOC]

I personally would have dragged them to the nearest VA hospital and introduced them to those who gave them their freedoms to be stupid disrespectful brats

[mtbopfuyn]

Sounds like the kid has been wanting to get in-school suspension all year. ISS isn't a punishment but a get out of jail free card for many kids who don't want to be in class.

A typical day in ISS is - bring breakfast to the room and eat it while you're looking at the newspaper in a leisurely fashion. Then IF your teachers know or care that you have one day, then they MIGHT send over your assignments. If they do send your work, you can usually finish it within 30 minutes and have the rest of the day to do as you wish... well, quietly at you desk. Along comes lunch and again, you get to eat at your leisure at your desk while coloring or reading the latest Motor Trend magazine. As long as you have an open book on your desk you can feign reading and take an afternoon nap. Bottom line is you just got yourself a nice little vacation.

[anonsquared]

The proper response from the parents should have been...
“We apologize to the community and our children will be standing for the Pledge for the rest of the school year because coincidentally, they will be unable to sit down for that exact amount of time.”

And instead of the in-school suspension, they should have been driven over to the closest Veteran’s Cemetery by local veterans for three days of clean-up. Maybe then they would understand why we stand for the Pledge.

[count-your-change]

If a person can’t be prosecuted for burning the flag why can this kid be suspended for not standing while others pledge to it?

[RogerD]

I’d take his butt the the closest large military cemetary, make him walk, and do maintance all day in that place and when he’s done ask him why he thinks he’s so much more important than all these people who gave their all for this nation. Why he is so damned lazy he can’t show respect for what he has been given, and what was sacrificed so he could even be here.

I usually like my own ideas for these parenting situations, but you've outdone anything I might have thought of in time, with an answer that is definitely the best of all possible responses. Sunrise to sunset should be enough time for the message to sink in, and I'd be ashamed if a child of mine didn't finish the day wanting to come back to keep the cemetary looking worthy of the (mostly) men who gave their lives for freedom.

[Bob J]

“It is entirely proper for schools to teach patriotism and respect for the country and it’s symbols, and to exact a penalty for those who don’t learn.”

Soe might call that fascism.

[ctdonath2]

Beware teaching kids that they do NOT have to respect authority. Learning that simple disobedience has no consequences - as the authority is not permitted to actually do anything about it - can only lead to societal meltdown.

Whether the kids should have had the option to not stand is an issue separate from whether the kids should stand when told to.

[chiefqc]

just like the children took their led from bent willie about oral sex not be sex, now their taking their led for obamwama about the flag, honor and American pride.

What a sad picture it was to see a empty suit, obamawama, standing there feeling his crotch will they are honoring the American flag.

[Amendment10]

I'm going to have to play devil's advocate here.

Keep in mind that I was not at the event in question and do not know what was going on in these kid's heads. But not only do I think that the suspension was uncalled for, I think that regulating body language, even in the name of showing respect for the Pledge, infringed on the 14th A. protections of these students. In my opinion, public schools have never ironed out what they can and can't do with mixed groups of people where constitutional rights are concerned.

Also, consider that the PoA's emphasis on "One Nation" indicates that it is a forerunner to the USSC's ignoring of 10th A. protected state powers. In fact, based on Jefferson's writings, we should be emphasizing the idea of individual states, not the idea of one nation, to our children.

"The true theory of our Constitution is surely the wisest and best, that the States are independent as to everything within themselves, and united as to everything respecting foreign nations." --Thomas Jefferson to Gideon Granger, 1800. ME 10:168

Indeed, suppressing the idea of state powers, particularly the power to address religion, arguably helped crooked justices to kick God out of the public schools.

Finally, if the information at the following link is accurate, I find it troubling that the Pledge was authored by a socialist.

Francis Bellamy

[trussell]

The Pledge is part of our American heritage and I believe it is right to insist that people stand in respect when it is being recited. Whether they participate or not doesn’t matter...they should show respect!

Those who hope to be leaders of our Country should have to be willing to participate in the Pledge as that would show respect for the values held most dear to the Country they intend to lead.

[bobby.223]

best post of the month so far bar none.

[Amendment10]

For the record, there's nothing wrong with showing respect when the Pledge is recited.

However...

I don't believe that your "right to insist" that people show respect for the Pledge necessarily means that they are obligated to show their respect on your terms. In fact, given that the students in question never disrupted the reciting of the Pledge, I'm satisfied that they were reasonably showing respect for the Pledge in their own peaceful way.

Also, given that the info on the page about Francis Bellamy (<-click) and his Pledge is true, then taking into consideration that none of the Founding Fathers and most 18th and 19th century Americans never heard the Pledge anyway, the Pledge, in my opinion, is a rogue part of our heritage, actually a patriotic-sounding, but Constitution-ignoring socialistic creed.

Finally, the reason that it doesn't bother me when people recite the Pledge is because people tend to start reciting things by self-hypnosis anyway, their minds tending to wander while they are reciting. In fact, I'll argue that the minds of the students reciting the Pledge were possibly further out of the school than the students who had chosen to respectfully sit it out.