The Christian case for supporting Israel

National Post ^ | May 08 2008 | Father Raymond J. De Souza

[goldstategop]

I disagree. I see Israel's establishment as part of the on-going process of redemption. First, it will physically reunite the Children Of Israel in their country. Second, it will spiritually awaken the Jewish people to their true holiness that can only be realized in Eretz Israel. Third, the holy light from every Jew in Israel will be like a candle that will light up and transform the entire world. We will all be witness one day to the truth of the word of Hashem and the Torah coming from Zion and Jerusalem and all the nations will finally know the True Lord Of The World - the God Of Israel who will be the Universal God of all Mankind.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

[The Woim]

To what purpose does is serve the Christian community for it’s shepherds to be chasing after the approval of other religions?

Besides, wasn’t the modern state of Israel created by the U.N.? Isn’t the messiah supposed to call the Jews back to Israel? From a purely theological question, the modern state of Israel is a stumbling block for traditional Jews and Christians.

From a secular point of view, who needs a cleric telling us anything? Of course the U.S. is an ally of Israel and together we’ll stand.

Yours truly,
The Woim

[knighthawk]

Ping

[ml/nj]

I guess it doesn't matter whether Israel has a higher moral claim to the land they possess. As for Christian Arabs, maybe he should read Brigitte Gabriel.

ML/NJ

[knighthawk]

Israel was created by the British mandate way before the UN evven excisted. Also the UN wanted to have the area under it’s control, check this:

http://www.nysun.com/news/battle-over-israel-s-birth

[SJackson]

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Forgetting the Christian religious "case", most Christians can tell the difference between freedom and barbarity. Most American Christians anyway.

[The Woim]

Excellent point - it still fails theologically.

Yours truly,
The Woim

[rmlew]

To what purpose does is serve the Christian community for it’s shepherds to be chasing after the approval of other religions?
Civility helps. Also, he is simply countering the propoganda by certa Islamo-Christian dhimmi, liberation theologians, and those who allow a theological suppersession (Christians as the New Israel) to become a desire to see Jews be forever wandering second-class people.

Besides, wasn’t the modern state of Israel created by the U.N.? Isn’t the messiah supposed to call the Jews back to Israel?
Cyrus the Great was given the title of Messiah for allowing Jews to return to Israel after Babylonian captivity. Why cant even a vile institution like the UN be part of G_d's plan here?
Also, the UN recognized the Third Israeli Commonwealth. Jewish blood and the will of G_d created it.

From a purely theological question, the modern state of Israel is a stumbling block for traditional Jews and Christian
It is no stumbling block for Jews. For those Christians who lack faith in Jesus as the Messiah, I suppose it could be. That's you fault, not Israels.

[vpintheak]

It is Biblical, end of story. Our Heavenly Father said He would bless those who bless Israel and curse those who curse it.

[Salem]

"Forgetting the Christian religious "case", most Christians can tell the difference between freedom and barbarity. Most American Christians anyway."

"Forgetting the Christian religious 'case'," for Israel in America at this point, while the Evangelical/Other Christian community is wielding such substantial cultural and political muscle, is novel, as it is the central arena in American/Jewish relations today. We, of course, continue to be sensitive to the Conservative Jewish community's cultural caution in partnering with this.

That being said, yes indeed, any American Christian—any sane person for that matter—can tell the difference between freedom and Islamic barbarity on display daily in Israel.

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Letter To The President In Support Of Israel ~
'Final Solution,' Phase 2 ~
Warnings ~
The Nature Of Bruce ~

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" ... It's time we recognized the nature of the conflict. It's total war and we are all involved. Nobody on our side is exempted because of age, gender, or handicap. The Islamofacists have stolen childhood from the world."—FReeper Retief
"Palestine is the wrong name for their State. It should be called Anarchy."—FReeper sgtbono2002
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A student told his professor he was going to "Palestine" to "fight for freedom, peace and justice,"—Orwellian leftist code words that mean "murder Jews."

[hiredhand]

It is Biblical, end of story. Our Heavenly Father said He would bless those who bless Israel and curse those who curse it.

Exactly...it's enough that the Lord thinks enough of these people to have done the things He has done with and TO them. It's not a matter of whether or not we "like" them, but rather how we are to react to the situation according to the Lord's perspective, and because we want to obey Him. :-)

[The Woim]

Nice try, but really - it’s a failed attempt.

Civility? Who’s against that?

From a Jewish perspective, the Romans defeating the Jews in 66-128 AD and the smashing of the temple were edicts from G-d. You’re not allowing to retake something by force.

In fact, the secular state of Israel is a grave spiritual error.

From a Christian point of view, anything post Resurrection is moot. There is no spiritual tie between Christians and Jews.

As an example, if the Jewish Messiah showed up tomorrow and brought all Torah true Jews to Eretz Yisrael (the real one - not the contemporary one) then Christians would understand themselves to be in spiritual error.

Although there’s nothing in the Chumash that prohibits non-Jews from straying. Non-Jews are not binded (or blessed) to be obedient. If believing in Jesus is idol worship - there’s no sin committed by a gentile for believing.

Yours truly,
The Woim

[Prophet in the wilderness]

Amen, and I don't want to be on the receiving end of God's curses.
God Bless and Protect Israel forever.
By the way ? in the Bible ? a generation is what ? 20 years ? 40 years ? 70 years ? 80 years ? in 10 years Israel will have it's 70'th Anniversary..... the number 7 is God's number.... 7 is significant in the Bible.

[rmlew]

From a Jewish perspective, the Romans defeating the Jews in 66-128 AD and the smashing of the temple were edicts from G-d. You’re not allowing to retake something by force.

In fact, the secular state of Israel is a grave spiritual error.
It is a perspective, one held by a minority of Jews. In fact, most Orthodox Jews are either Zionists or reconciled to the State of Israel.
There are some Jews who cling to a extra-biblical Rabbinic ruling that was made at the point of Roman Swords. I consider the ruling, by its very nature, a crime against Judaism.

From a Christian point of view, anything post Resurrection is moot. There is no spiritual tie between Christians and Jews.
So why are you so threatened by the modern State of Israel?

As an example, if the Jewish Messiah showed up tomorrow and brought all Torah true Jews to Eretz Yisrael (the real one - not the contemporary one) then Christians would understand themselves to be in spiritual error.
And some day, this will come. Many Religious Zionists believe that the Jewish settlement in Israel hastens this. But the belief of gentiles is not really a concern

Although there’s nothing in the Chumash that prohibits non-Jews from straying. Non-Jews are not binded (or blessed) to be obedient. If believing in Jesus is idol worship - there’s no sin committed by a gentile for believing.
There are the laws of Noah, but i consider Christians to be close enough.

[onedoug]

The Christian case for supporting Israel

Decency.

[Biggirl]

As post number 9 points out, even God uses human insitutions such as the UK and then after that, the UN to bring Isreal back to life again. All this for the glory of God.

[Biggirl]

Correcting myself, “countries such as the UK”.

[Convert from ECUSA]

Ping!

[The Woim]

Ok, I’ll play along. HaShem uses the UN and the Brits to create the modern state of Israel. If so, this would be similar to other Biblical miracles. In each occurence, except Moses and the 40 years of hardship in the desert to spiritually purify the Jews there was an complete victory with total defeat for the enemies (think Purim, think Parshas Mattos - there are others that I haven’t listed). Ok, the modern state of Israel is now 60 years and the terrorist attacks are increasing. Remember, anti-semitism is mostly a punishment from HaShem.

So, following along still? I’ll bet you are.

Of course, there are supposed to be four terrible kingdoms which will be a trial and tribulation for the Jews and some rabbi’s (Sfornos is one; Abarbanel is another - of course there are others) who consider Christianity to be the fourth and most terrible Kingdom.

Perhaps. G-d only knows.

However, the secular state of Israel is pro-gay (an abomination), pro-abortion (Sure, Jews allow abortion but it’s NEVER allowed because the woman wants to look good in a bathing suit or simply doesn’t feel like having a bab); not particularly diligent in following Kashrut laws; and most importantly was not established by the messiah/moshiach.

Now, it’s ok to disagree with me. And you’re right, only the holiest of Jews know how much of a spiritual mistake the modern state of Israel is.

None of my arguments should be construed to mean that the U.S. should no longer be an ally of Israel, the modern state of Israel is a friend of America and friends look out for each other.

As for the Christian cleric, I sure wish those guys would stop whoring after Jewish approval. Focus on doing the right thing.

Yours truly,
The Woim