Posted on 04/24/2008 6:25:47 AM PDT by eleni121
This year commemorates the 93rd anniversary of the Armenian Genocide. In 1915, the ottoman empire under the auspices of the young turks carried out the first genocide of the 20th century and set a precedent for all future genocides.
One and a half million Armenians were systematically massacred as they were evicted from their homes onto the merciless deserts of eastern turkey and into the darkness of the Black Sea.
(Excerpt) Read more at april24.net ...
I actually had the pleasure of being in an Armenian Apostolic wedding a few years back. I gained a tremendous amount of respect for their faith and unique traditions. Their genocide is arguably the most under-taught period of world history in schools today.
Nobody is asking the US to be responsible. It would just be nice if this sad period of history was more well-known to prevent similar problems in the future. I would venture to guess that over half of Americans are clueless about this whole thing.
The Armenian genocide is an important historical event. It was tragic in it's own right. It also points to Islamic mass murder in the present and, if we don't stop them, the future.
Rudolph Rummel has coined the term “Democide” to capture all instances of government mass murder. It is a broader term than genocide. The distinction can be seen in the the following case. Stalin murdered somewhere between 5 million and ten million Ukrainians in 1931-2. He did this as to exterminate the independent farmer and collectize agriculture. Since the purpose wasn't to eliminate Ukrainians because they were Ukrainians, someone can say this was not genocide. But government mass murder is murder regardless of the intent. It is the objective fact of murder that counts, not the reason provided.
Democide generally excludes war time death. Soldiers shooting soldiers is a tragic consequence of conflict between nations and is not democide. Government sanctioned military killings of unarmed, non-hostile, unthreatening civilians is democide.
Some barbaric people try to rig events so that American soldiers kill civilians by mistake. Our enemies do this for its propaganda benefit. Our liberal press eagerly falls for it. It is important to note that uniforms are worn by those who want to spare innocent civilians. Those fighting out of uniform often want the death of innocent civilians.
Here's a table developed by Dr. Rummel on 20th century Democide:
http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/20TH.HTM
The 20th century was especially bad.
The Clinton administration became embroiled in the former Yugoslavia because Muslims claimed that Christians were engaged in their mass murder. Even conservatives wanted Clinton to act. But America may have fallen for a false claim. Since that time false massacres have been unearthed. Jenin and Haditha come to mind. The Srebrenica massacre may have been a hoax also. It may be time for a national reappraisal of our policies in that region.
I have a different take on the Armenian genocide. That is, one story of what happened in America, and how liberal scoundrels haven’t changed.
I knew a man who had been a college student at the time. He had come from a poor family and had worked very hard to put himself through college.
The dean of men was a prominent liberal, who prided himself on his “vocal” support of liberal causes. When word of the Armenian “crisis” made it to the US, he knew what he was going to do.
He decided that students should fast one day each week, and that the money they had already paid for food be diverted for “the starving Armenians”.
And as you might guess, every penny just went into the pocket of the dean, because he didn’t give two hoots for the Armenians, whoever they were. Typical liberal.
Well, the college student discovered the dean’s racket, and he wasn’t going to let the dean get away with it. He decided to connive some of the dean’s chickens, so that he and his friends could have the food they had paid for.
He knew that the dean’s wife was a none-too-bright squishy liberal trophy wife. So he paid a visit to her when he knew the dean was out of town for the week. He claimed to be a seminary student taking up a collection for the local orphanage.
She was in tears as he described the sob story of the poor, deprived orphans dressed in rags like the little match girl.
And she was so impressed that she not only gave him several of the dean’s chicken, but wrote a large check of the dean’s money as a donation to the orphanage.
This also shows the nobility of conservatives, as though the student and his friends feasted on the dean’s chickens, he very honorably presented the check, in the name of the dean’s wife, to the orphanage.
When to his horror, the dean learned that some of his hard stolen money was going to be given to *charity*, he screamed and ranted at her, and damned the orphans, right in front of a visitor, who turned out to be the Reverend director of the orphanage who had stopped by to personally thank her for her donation.
She did not appreciate this for a long time thereafter.
Oh Look!
The Muslims are still at it!
What a peaceful religion...
Since most of the victims are dead, compensation is moot. Restitution for confiscated property would be up to Turkey. They could follow the example of some Eastern European countries by returning public buildings to their original owners, Churchs, Christian community buildings, things like that, but I wouldn't hold my breath. Financial instruments, bank deposits and insurance policies, there are living heirs and those can be restored. It's the one area the international community, even the US and individual states have leverage. I believe NY Life settled a number of these, at the behest of the State of California.
As I recall, Nancy Pelosi tried just last fall to pass a bill regarding this which irritated the Turks tremendously. As a result, they began massing troops along the border with the Kurds which could have destabilized it, and started new fighting. And, since a huge amount of our heavy armor comes thru Turkey, they were going to put a stop to our using their land as a transshipping point.
So, let me ask you, should we no longer recognize or teach about the Holocaust because there will be no living survivors or perpetrators at some point in the future?
The fact is, Islam has been on the warpath with Christianity for centuries. Also, Armenia was the first Christian nation and the first to fight for Christianity against Islamic tyranny.
Why is it better to keep it silent and if we should keep such things silent then why not keep all such crimes silent?
It was only a simple resolution which would have resulted in no US action whatsoever, and the Turks acted like idiots as a result. The whole episode showed their true colors as an "ally" of ours.
Of course not. Add it to the History books, talk about it, but don't expect us to hobbel ourselves over it when we're in a war.
I will remember and I will not forget the Armenian Genocide.
I’m sure we are very capable of multitasking don’t you?
Yes, but why hamstring ourselves when it’s not necessary. I guess we’re just going to disagree to a point.
Yes, but why hamstring ourselves when it’s not necessary. I guess we’re just going to disagree to a point.
Yes they do. CALIFORNIA GOVERNOR SCHWARZENEGGER PROCLAIMS APRIL 24 DAY OF REMEMBRANCE FOR THE ARMENIAN GENOCIDE It's very appropriate that we are talking about this today.
I grew up in Fresno, which probably had the largest Armenian population in the US. I can't recall a time when I didn't know about the Armenian Genocide. But I was shocked to discover, as an adult, that not many Americans (outside of Fresno) really knew anything about it.
The famous director, Elia Kazan was Greek and Armenian, from Turkey. He painted a picture of what life was like there in one of his interviews:
KAZAN: "The Anatolian Greeks are completely terrorised people. My father's family comes from the interior of Asia Minor, from a city called Kayseri, and they never forgot they were part of a minority. They were surrounded with periodic slaughters - or riots: the Turks would suddenly have a crisis and massacre a lot of Armenians, or they'd run wild and kill a lot of Greeks. The Greeks stayed in their houses. The fronts of the houses were almost barricaded, the windows shut with wooden shutters. One of the first memories I have is of sleeping in my grandmother's bed and my grandmother telling me stories about the massacre of the Armenians, and how she and my grandfather hid Armenians in the cellar of their home ... The Armenians were lustier, their history a much bolder, more rebellious one. The Greeks were crafty, they did not rebel and they did not get killed as much."
But, from some of his interviews, you can get that Kazan understood the roles the socially oppressed/oppressor well and how he was able to use to make great films like "A Gentleman's Agreement". He also made a film called "America, America" that dealt more directly with the Armenian Genocide and the horrendous treatment of Anatolian Greeks under Turkish rule.
So, you think such an acknowledgment would be detrimental to us and I don't think it will change our status in the Arab world much if anything.
“He also made a film called “America, America” that dealt more directly with the Armenian Genocide and the horrendous treatment of Anatolian Greeks under Turkish rule.”
This is a truly magnificent film which everyone should see.
There is a clip of the film, America, America here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYJus0srB-Q&feature=related
It shows some of what was done to both the Greeks and the Armenians.
Here’s a link to the whole film (and a great blog too). Scroll down the page and you’ll see the window and an aricle about Kazan:
http://greekodyssey.typepad.com/my_greek_odyssey/2008/02/the-featured-mo.html
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