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Ben Stein Exposes Richard Dawkins (Dawkins admits possibility of ID, Just Not God).
Townhall ^ | April 21, 2008 | Dinesh D'Souza

Posted on 04/21/2008 7:23:01 PM PDT by SeekAndFind

In Ben Stein's new film "Expelled," there is a great scene where Richard Dawkins is going on about how evolution explains everything. This is part of Dawkins' grand claim, which echoes through several of his books, that evolution by itself has refuted the argument from design. The argument from design hold that the design of the universe and of life are most likely the product of an intelligent designer. Dawkins thinks that Darwin has disproven this argument.

So Stein puts to Dawkins a simple question, "How did life begin?" One would think that this is a question that could be easily answered. Dawkins, however, frankly admits that he has no idea. One might expect Dawkins to invoke evolution as the all-purpose explanation. Evolution, however, only explains transitions from one life form to another. Evolution has no explanation for how life got started in the first place. Darwin was very clear about this.

In order for evolution to take place, there had to be a living cell. The difficulty for atheists is that even this original cell is a work of labyrinthine complexity. Franklin Harold writes in The Way of the Cell that even the simplest cells are more ingeniously complicated than man's most elaborate inventions: the factory system or the computer. Moreover, Harold writes that the various components of the cell do not function like random widgets; rather, they work purposefully together, as if cooperating in a planned organized venture. Dawkins himself has described the cell as the kind of supercomputer, noting that it functions through an information system that resembles the software code.

Is it possible that living cells somehow assembled themselves from nonliving things by chance? The probabilities here are so infinitesimal that they approach zero. Moreover, the earth has been around for some 4.5 billion years and the first traces of life have already been found at some 3.5 billion years ago. This is just what we have discovered: it's quite possible that life existed on earth even earlier. What this means is that, within the scope of evolutionary time, life appeared on earth very quickly after the earth itself was formed. Is it reasonable to posit that a chance combination of atoms and molecules, under those conditions, somehow generated a living thing? Could the random collision of molecules somehow produce a computer?

It is ridiculously implausible to think so. And the absurdity was recognized more than a decade ago by Francis Crick, co-discoverer of the DNA double helix. Yet Crick is a committed atheist. Unwilling to consider the possibility of divine or supernatural creation, Crick suggested that maybe aliens brought life to earth from another planet. And this is precisely the suggestion that Richard Dawkins makes in his response to Ben Stein. Perhaps, he notes, life was delivered to our planet by highly-evolved aliens. Let's call this the "ET" explanation.

Stein brilliantly responds that he had no idea Richard Dawkins believes in intelligent design! And indeed Dawkins does seem to be saying that alien intelligence is responsible for life arriving on earth. What are we to make of this? Basically Dawkins is surrendering on the claim that evolution can account for the origins of life. It can't. The issue now is simply whether a natural intelligence (ET) or a supernatural intelligence (God) created life. Dawkins can't bear the supernatural explanation and so he opts for ET. But doesn't it take as much, or more, faith to believe in extraterrestrial biology majors depositing life on earth than it does to believe in a transcendent creator?


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; News/Current Events; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: benstein; dawkins; dineshdsouza; dsouza; expelled; franciscrick; intelligentdesign; moviereview; richarddawkins; stephenhawking
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To: tacticalogic
Maybe. Then again maybe not. It raises questions.

Precisely, it raises questions. Questions that strike at the core of Darwinism. If you can't parse what the researcher is saying, any attempt at rational argumentation with you is futile. I'll try to explain. His research indicates that natural selection cannot explain certain features common in eukaryotes via selection on morphological complexity. And by implication, this shortfall undermines the assumption, which means no proof, that natural selection explains the emergence of multicellular life. IOW no life bigger than single cells. That pretty well shoots "Origin of Species" through the head, if true. But he has evidence that supports that shooting.

281 posted on 04/23/2008 9:26:40 PM PDT by AndrewC (You should go see "Expelled")
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To: AndrewC

Then you’re telling me that the test for ID may not even exist, and the hypothesis may very well have never gotten past step 2 in applying the scientific method.


282 posted on 04/24/2008 5:07:06 AM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: tacticalogic
Then you’re telling me that the test for ID may not even exist,

No, I'm telling you to ask someone doing the ID research.

283 posted on 04/24/2008 5:10:16 AM PDT by AndrewC (You should go see "Expelled")
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To: AndrewC

If that’s how it turns out, so be it. But you’re already drawing conclusions about the results before the process is finished. There’s still peer review of the methodology and independent reproduction of the results to be done, and even the conclusions from that are subject to revision if new evidence comes along.


284 posted on 04/24/2008 5:12:53 AM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: tacticalogic
But you’re already drawing conclusions about the results before the process is finished.

No, I am not. The researcher drew the valid implication. I explained what the implication meant.

Yes, there are "ifs" involved. However, the "if" presented by the researcher is supported by evidence. Your "ifs" are nothing but speculation. And the comment by the researcher indicates that Darwinism is controversial.

I think Lynch has been peer-reviewed.




Publications:



Lynch, M. 1974. The phytoplankton of the Allegheny Reservoir from May 1972 to September 1973. Science Studies (St. Bonaventure University) 30: 5-29.



Shapiro, J., V. Lamarra, and Lynch, M. 1975. Biomanipulation: An ecosystem approach to lake restoration, pp. 85-96. In P. L. Brezonik and J. L. Fox (eds.) Water Quality Management Through Biological Control. Proc. Symp. Univ. Florida.



Lynch, M. 1977. Zooplankton competition and plankton community structure. Limnology and Oceanography 22: 775-777.



Lynch, M. 1977. Fitness and optimal body size in zooplankton populations. Ecology 58: 763-774.



Lynch, M. 1978. Complex interactions between natural coexploiters - Daphnia and Ceriodaphnia. Ecology 59: 552-564.



Lynch, M. 1979. Predation, competition, and zooplankton community structure: An experimental study. Limnology and Oceanography 24: 253-272.



Lynch, M. 1980. The evolution of cladoceran life histories. Quarterly Review of Biology 55: 23-42.



Lynch, M. 1980. Predation, enrichment, and the evolution of cladoceran life histories: A theoretical approach. In W. C. Kerfoot (ed.) The Evolution and Ecology of Zoplankton Communities. American Society of Limnology and Oceanography Special Symposium No. 3: 367-376.



Lynch, M. 1980. Aphanizomenon blooms: Alternate control and cultivation by Daphnia pulex. In W.C. Kerfoot (ed.) The Evolution and Ecology of Zooplankton Communities. American Society of Limnology and Oceanography Special Symposium No. 3: 299-304.



Lynch, M. 1981. Predation, enrichment, and phytoplankton community structure. Limnology and Oceanography 26: 86-102.



Lynch, M., B. Monson, M. Sandheinrich, and L. Weider. 1981. Patterns of size-specific mortality in zooplankton populations. Verh. Internat. Verein. Limnol. 21: 363-368.



Lynch, M. 1982. How well does the Edmondson-Paloheimo model approximate instantaneous birth rates? Ecology 63: 12-18.



Lynch, M. 1983. Ecological genetics of Daphnia pulex. Evolution 37: 358-374.



Weis, A., P. Price, and M. Lynch. 1983. Selection for clutch size in the gall-maker Asteromyia carbonifera. Ecology 64: 688-695.



Lynch, M. 1983. Estimation of size-specific mortality rates in zooplankton populations by periodic sampling. Limnology and Oceanography 28: 533-545.



Lynch, M., and R. Ennis. 1983. Resource availability, maternal effects, and longevity. Exper. Gerontology 18: 147-165.



Lynch, M., and W. Gabriel. 1983. Phenotypic evolution and parthenogenesis. American Naturalist 122: 745-764.



Lynch, M. 1984. The genetic structure of a cyclical parthenogen. Evolution 38: 186-203.



Lynch, M. 1984. The limits to life history evolution in Daphnia. Evolution 38: 465-482.



Lynch, M. 1984. Destabilizing hybridization, general-purpose genotypes, and geographic parthenogenesis. Quarterly Review of Biology 59: 257-290.



Lynch, M. 1984. The selective value of alleles underlying polygenic traits. Genetics 108: 1021-1033.



Lynch, M. 1985. Elements of a mechanistic theory for the life history consequences of food limitation. Ergeb. Limnol. 21: 351-362.



Lynch, M. 1985. Speciation in the Cladocera. Verh. Internat. Verein. Limnol. 22: 3116-3123.



Lynch, M. 1985. Spontaneous mutations for life history characters in an obligate parthenogen. Evolution 39: 804-818.



Lynch, M., L. Weider, and W. Lampert. 1986. Measurement of the carbon balance in Daphnia. Limnology and Oceanography 31: 17-33.



Lynch, M. 1986. Random drift, uniform selection, and the degree of population differentiation. Evolution 40: 640-643.



Lynch, M., and W. G. Hill. 1986. Phenotypic evolution by neutral mutation. Evolution 40: 915-935.



Lynch, M. 1987. The consequences of fluctuating selection for isozyme polymorphisms in Daphnia. Genetics 115: 657-669.



Lynch, M., and W. Gabriel. 1987. Environmental tolerance. American Naturalist 129: 283-303.



Lynch, M., and W. Gabriel. 1987. Evolution of breadth of biochemical adaptation, pp. 67-83. In P. Calow (ed.) Evolutionary Physiological Ecology. Cambridge Univ. Press, Cambridge, UK.



Kerfoot, W. C., and M. Lynch. 1987. Branchiopod communities: associations with planktivorous fish in space and time, pp. 367-378. In W.C. Kerfoot and A. Sih (eds.) Predation. Univ. Press New England, Hanover, NH.



Lynch, M. 1987. The evolution of intrafamilial interactions. Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. USA 84: 8507-8511.



Lynch, M. 1988. The rate of polygenic mutation. Genetical Research 51: 137-148.



Lynch, M. 1988. The divergence of neutral quantitative characters among partially isolated populations. Evolution 42: 455-466.



Lynch, M. 1988. Path analysis of ontogenetic data, pp. 29-46. In L. Persson and B. Ebenman (eds.) The Dynamics of Size-structured Populations. Springer-Verlag.



Lynch, M., and S. J. Arnold. 1988. Measurement of selection on size and growth, pp. 47-59 In L. Persson and B. Ebenman (eds.) The Dynamics of Size-structured Populations. Springer-Verlag.



Lynch, M. 1988. Estimation of relatedness by DNA fingerprinting. Mol. Biol. Evol. 5: 584-599.



Lynch, M. 1988. Design and analysis of experiments on random drift and inbreeding. Genetics 120: 791-807.



Lynch, M. 1989. Phylogenetic hypotheses under the assumption of neutral quantitative genetic variation. Evolution 43: 1-17.



Lynch, M., K. Spitze, and T. Crease. 1989. The distribution of life history variation in Daphnia pulex. Evolution 43: 1724-1736.



Lynch, M. 1989. The life history consequences of resource depression in Daphnia pulex. Ecology 70: 246-256.



Lynch, M. 1990. The rate of morphological evolution in mammals from the standpoint of the neutral expectation. American Naturalist 136: 727-741.



Lynch, M., and T. Crease. 1990. The analysis of population survey data on DNA sequence variation. Mol. Biol. Evol. 7: 377-394.



Crease, T., M. Lynch, and K. Spitze. 1990. A hierarchical analysis of population genetic variation in nuclear and mitochondrial genes in Daphnia. Mol. Biol. Evol. 7: 444-458.



Lynch, M. 1990. The similarity index and DNA fingerprinting. Mol. Biol. Evol. 7: 478-484.



Lynch, M., and W. Gabriel. 1990. Mutation load and the survival of small populations. Evolution 44: 1725-1737.



Gabriel, W., R. Bürger, and M. Lynch. 1991. Population extinction by mutational load and demographic stochasticity, pp. 49-59. In A. Seitz, and V. Loeschcke (eds.) Species Conservation: a Population Biological Approach. Birkhäuser Verlag, Basel.



Lynch, M. 1991. Methods for the analysis of comparative data in evolutionary biology. Evolution 45: 1065-1080.



Lynch, M. 1991. The genetic interpretation of inbreeding depression and outbreeding depression. Evolution 45: 622-629.



Lynch, M. 1991. Analysis of population genetic structure by DNA fingerprinting, pp. 113-126. In T. Burke, G. Dolf, A. J. Jeffreys, and R. Wolff (eds.) DNA Fingerprinting: Approaches and Applications. Birkhäuser Verlag, Basel.



Crease, T. J., and M. Lynch. 1991. Ribosomal DNA variation in Daphnia pulex. Mol. Biol. Evol. 8: 620-640.



Spitze, K., J. Burnson, and M. Lynch. 1991. The covariance structure of life history characters in Daphnia pulex. Evolution 45: 1081-1090.



Lynch, M., W. Gabriel, and A. M. Wood. 1991. The adaptive and demographic response of plankton populations to environmental change. Limnol. Oceanogr. 36: 1301-1312.



Cohen, J. E., M. Lynch, and C. E. Taylor. 1991. Forensic DNA tests and Hardy-Weinberg equilibrium. Science 253: 1037.



Lynch, M. 1992. The life history consequences of resource depression in Ceriodaphnia quadrangula and Daphnia ambigua. Ecology 73: 1620-1629.



Gabriel, W., and M. Lynch. 1992. The selective advantage of reaction norms for environmental tolerance. J. Evol. Biol. 5: 41-59.



Lynch, M., and R. Lande. 1993. Evolution and extinction in response to environmental change, pp. 234-250. In P. Kareiva, J. Kingsolver, and R. Huey (eds.) Biotic Interactions and Global Change. Sinauer Assocs., Inc. Sunderland, MA.



Lynch, R. Bürger, D. Butcher, and W. Gabriel. 1993. Mutational meltdowns in asexual populations. J. Heredity 84: 339-344.



Lynch, M., and P. Jerrol. 1993. A method for calibrating molecular clocks and its application to animal mitochondrial DNA. Genetics 135: 1197-1208.



Lynch, M., and K. Spitze. 1994. Evolutionary genetics of Daphnia, pp. 109-128. In L. Real (ed.) Ecological Genetics. Princeton Univ. Press.



Lynch, M. 1994. The neutral theory of phenotypic evolution, pp. 86-108. In L. Real (ed.) Ecological Genetics. Princeton Univ. Press.



Gabriel, W., M. Lynch, and R. Bürger. 1994. Muller's ratchet and mutational meltdowns. Evolution 47: 1744-1757.



Lynch, M., and B. Milligan. 1994. Analysis of population-genetic structure using RAPD markers. Molecular Ecology 3: 91-99.



Bürger, R., and M. Lynch. 1994. Evolution and extinction in a changing environment: a quantitative-genetic analysis. Evolution 49: 151-163.



Lynch, M., and H. W. Deng. 1994. Genetic slippage in response to sex. American Naturalist 144: 242-261.



Toline, C. A., and M. Lynch. 1994. Mutational divergence of life-history traits in an obligate parthenogen. Genome 37: 33-35.



Avise, J. C., S. M. Haig, O. A. Ryder, M. Lynch, and C. J. Geyer. 1995. Descriptive genetic studies: applications in population management and conservation biology, pp. 183-244. In J. D. Ballou, M. Gilpin, and T. J. Foose (eds.) Population Management for Survival and Recovery. Columbia Univ. Press, New York.



Conery, J. S., M. Lynch, and T. Hovland. 1995. Irregular computations on SIMD machines: a case study. Proc. 5th Symp. Frontiers of Massively Parallel Computation: 222-230.



Lehman, N., M. E. Pfrender, P. A. Morin, T. J. Crease, and M. Lynch. 1995. A hierarchical molecular phylogeny of the genus Daphnia. Mol. Phylog. Evol. 4: 395-407.



Lynch, M., J. Conery, and R. Bürger. 1995. Mutational meltdowns in sexual populations. Evolution 49: 1067-1080.



Lynch, M., J. Conery, and R. Bürger. 1995. Mutation accumulation and the extinction of small populations. American Naturalist 146: 489-518.



Lynch, M. 1996. A quantitative-genetic perspective on conservation issues, pp. 471-501. In J. Avise and J. Hamrick (eds.) Conservation Genetics: Case Histories from Nature. Chapman and Hall, New York.



Lynch, M. 1996. Mutation accumulation in transfer RNAs: molecular evidence for Muller's ratchet in mitochondrial genomes. Mol. Biol. Evol. 13: 209-220.



Deng, H.-W., and M. Lynch. 1996. Change of genetic architecture in response to sex. Genetics 143: 203-212.



Deng, H.-W., and M. Lynch. 1996. Estimation of deleterious-mutation parameters in natural populations. Genetics 144: 349-360.



Houle, D., R. Morikawa, and M. Lynch. 1996. Comparing mutational variabilities. Genetics 143: 1467-1483.



Kibota, T., and M. Lynch. 1996. Estimate of the genomic mutation rate deleterious to overall fitness in Escherichia coli. Nature 381: 694-696.



Crease, T., S. K. Sung, S. L. Sung, N. Lehman, K. Spitze, and M. Lynch. 1997. Allozyme and mitochondrial DNA variation in populations of the Daphnia pulex complex from both sides of the Rocky Mountains. Heredity 79: 242-251.



Deng, H.-W., and M. Lynch. 1997. Inbreeding depression and inferred deleterious mutation parameters in Daphnia. Genetics 147: 147-155.



Lynch, M. 1997. Mutation accumulation in nuclear, organelle, and prokaryotic genomes: transfer RNA genes. Mol. Biol. Evol. 14: 914-925.



Schultz, S. T., and M. Lynch. 1997. Deleterious mutation and extinction: effects of variable mutational effects, synergistic epistasis, beneficial mutations, and degree of outcrossing. Evolution 51: 1363-1371.



Bürger, R., and M. Lynch. 1997. Adaptation and extinction in changing environments, pp. 209-240. In R. Bijlsma and V. Loeschcke (eds.) Environmental Stress, Adaptation and Evolution. Birkhäuser Verlag, Basel.



Lynch, M., and J. Blanchard. 1998. Deleterious mutation accumulation in organelle genomes. Genetica 102/103: 29-39.



Deng, H.-W., Y.-X. Fu, and Lynch, M. 1998. Inferring the major genomic mode of dominance and overdominance. Genetica 102/103: 559-567.



Lynch, M., and R. Lande. 1998. The critical effective size for a genetically secure population. Anim. Cons. 1: 70-72.



Lynch, M., L. Latta, J. Hicks, and M. Giorgianni. 1998. Mutation, selection, and the maintenance of life-history variation in a natural population. Evolution 52: 727-733.



Vassilieva, L., and M. Lynch. 1999. Accumulation of spontaneous mutations in Caenorhabditis elegans. Genetics 151: 119-129.



Lynch, M., M. Pfrender, K. Spitze, N. Lehman, D. Allen, J. Hicks, L. Latta, M. Ottene, F. Bogue, and J. Colbourne. 1999. The quantitative and molecular genetic architecture of subdivided species. Evolution 53: 100-110.



Lynch, M., and K. Ritland. 1999. Estimation of relatedness with molecular markers. Genetics 152: 1753-1766.



Lynch, M. 1999. The age and relationships of the major animal phyla. Evolution 53: 319-325.



Force, A., M. Lynch, B. Pickett, A. Amores, Y.-L. Yan, and J. Postlethwait. 1999. Preservation of duplicate genes by complementary, degenerative mutations. Genetics 151: 1531-1545.



Lynch, M., J. Blanchard, D. Houle, T. Kibota, S. Schultz, L. Vassilieva, and J. Willis. 1999. Spontaneous deleterious mutation. Evolution 53: 645-663.



Conery, J. S., and M. Lynch. 1999. Genetic simulation library. Bioinformatics 15: 85-86.



Lynch, M. 1999. Estimation of genetic correlations in natural populations. Genetical Research 74: 255-264.



Schultz, S. T., M. Lynch, and J. H. Willis. 1999. Spontaneous deleterious mutation in Arabidopsis. Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. USA 96: 11393-11398.



Lynch, M., and A. Force. 2000. The probability of duplicate-gene preservation by subfunctionalization. Genetics 154: 459-473.



Vassilieva, L., A. M. Hook, and M. Lynch. 2000. The fitness effects of spontaneous mutations in Caenorhabditis elegans. Evolution 54: 1234-1246.



Blanchard, J., and M. Lynch. 2000. Why do mitochondrial genes end up in the nuclear genome? Trends in Genetics 16: 315-320.



Denver, D., K. Morris, M. Lynch, L. L. Vassilieva, and W. K. Thomas. 2000. High direct estimate of the mutation rate in the mitochondrial genome of C. elegans. Science 289: 2342-2344.



Pfrender, M. E., and M. Lynch. 2000. Quantitative genetic variation in Daphnia: temporal changes in genetic architecture. Evolution 54: 1502-1509.



Lynch, M., and A. Force. 2000. Gene duplication and the origin of interspecific genomic incompatibility. American Naturalist 156: 590-605.



Pfrender, M. E., K. Spitze, J. Hicks, K. Morgan, L. Latta, and M. Lynch. 2000. Lack of concordance between genetic diversity estimates at the molecular and quantitative-trait levels. Conservation Genetics 1: 263-269.



Lynch, M., and J. S. Conery. 2000. The evolutionary fate and consequences of duplicate genes. Science 290: 1151-1154.



Lynch, M. 2000. The limits to knowledge in quantitative genetics. Evol. Biol. 32: 225-237.



Lynch, M., and J. S. Conery. 2001. Gene duplication and evolution: response to Long and Thornton and Zhang et al. Science 293: 1551a.



Higgins, K., and M. Lynch. 2001. Metapopulation extinction due to mutation accumulation. Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. USA 98: 2928-2933.



Morgan, K. K., J. Hicks, K. Spitze, L. Latta, M. Pfrender, C. Ottone, and M. Lynch. 2001. Patterns of genetic architecture for life-history traits and molecular markers in a subdivided species. Evolution 55: 1753-1761.



Lynch, M. 2001. The molecular natural history of the human genome. Trends in Ecology and Evolution 16: 420-422.



Lynch, M., and M. O'Hely. 2001. Supplementation and the genetic fitness of natural populations. Conservation Genetics 2: 363-378.



Lynch, M., M. O'Hely, B. Walsh, and A. Force. 2001. The probability of fixation of a newly arisen gene duplicate. Genetics 159: 1789-1804.



Lynch, M. 2002. Intron evolution as a population-genetic process. Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. USA 99: 6118-6123.



Lynch, M., and A. Richardson. 2002. The evolution of spliceosomal introns. Curr. Opin. Gen. Devel. 12: 701-710.



Lynch, M. 2002. Chromosomal repatterning by gene duplication. Science 297: 945-947.



Jackson, R. B., C. R. Linder, M. Lynch, M. Purugannan, and S. Somerville. 2002. Linking molecular insights and ecological research. Trends in Ecology and Evolution 17: 409-414.



Azevedo, R. B. R., P. D. Keightley, C. Lauren-Maatta, L. L. Vassilieva, M. Lynch, and A. M. Leroi. 2002. Spontaneous mutational variation for body size in Caenorhabditis elegans. Genetics 162: 755-765.



Lynch, M., and J. S. Conery. 2003. The evolutionary demography of duplicate genes, pp. 35-44. In A. Meyer and Y. Van de Peer (eds.), Genome Evolution. Kluwer Academic Publishers, Dordrecht.



Keightley, P. D., and M. Lynch. 2003. Towards a realistic model of mutations affecting fitness. Evolution 57: 683-685.



Lynch, M., and A. Kewalramani. 2003. Messenger RNA processing and the evolutionary proliferation of introns. Mol. Biol. Evol. 20: 563-571.



Baer, C. F., and M. Lynch. 2003. Correlated evolution of life-history with size at maturity in Daphnia pulicaria: patterns within and between populations. Genetical Research 81: 123-132.



Estes, S., and M. Lynch. 2003. Rapid recovery of mutation-accumulation lines by compensatory mutation. Evolution 57: 1022-1030.



Housworth, E., E. Martins, and M. Lynch. 2003. The phylogenetic mixed model. American Naturalist 163: 84-96.



Lynch, M., and J. S. Conery. 2003. The origins of genome complexity. Science 302: 1401-1404.



Katju, V., and M. Lynch. 2003. The structure and early evolution of recently arisen gene duplicates in the Caenorhabditis elegans genome. Genetics 165: 1793-1803.



Denver, D. R., S. L. Swenson, and M. Lynch. 2003. An evolutionary analysis of the helix-hairpin-helix superfamily of DNA repair glycosylases. Molecular Biology and Evolution 20: 1603-1611.



Lynch, M. 2004. Gene duplication and evolution, pp. 33-47. In A. Moya and E. Font (eds.), Evolution: From Molecules to Ecosystems. Oxford University Press, New York, NY.



Estes, S., P. C. Phillips, D. R. Denver, W. K. Thomas, and M. Lynch. 2004. Mutation accumulation in populations of varying size: The distribution of mutational effects for fitness correlates in Caenorhabditis elegans. Genetics 166: 1269-1279.



Denver, D. R., K. Morris, M. Lynch, and W. K. Thomas. 2004. High mutation rate and predominance of insertions in the Caenorhabditis elegans nuclear genome. Nature 430: 679-682.



Lynch, M., and V. Katju. 2004. The altered evolutionary trajectories of gene duplicates. Trends in Genetics 20: 544-549.



Denver, D. R., K. Morris, A. Kewalramani, K. Harris, A. Chow, S. Randell-Estes, M. Lynch, and W. K. Thomas. 2004. Abundance, distribution and mutation rates of homopolymeric nucleotide runs in the genome of Caenorhabditis elegans. J. Mol. Evol. 58: 584-595.



Pfrender, M. E., J. Hicks, and M. Lynch. 2004. Biogeographic patterns and current distribution of molecular-genetic variation among populations of speckled dace, Rhinichthys osculus (Girard). Mol. Phylogenet. Evol. 30: 490-502.



Dudycha, J. L., and M. Lynch. 2005. Ontogeny and allometry of resource allocation in animals with indeterminate growth. Evolution 59: 565-576.



Lynch, M., D. G. Scofield, and X. Hong. 2005. The evolution of transcription-initiation sites. Mol. Biol. Evol. 22: 1137-1146.



Denver, D. R., K. Morris, J. T. Streelman, S. K. Kim, M. Lynch, and W. K. Thomas. 2005. The transcriptional consequences of mutation and natural selection in Caenorhabditis elegans. Nature Genetics 37: 544-548.



Denver, D. R., S. Feinberg, S. Estes, W. K. Thomas, and M. Lynch. 2005. Mutation rates, spectra and hotspots in mismatch repair-deficient Caenorhabditis elegans. Genetics 170: 107-113.



Baer, C. F., F. Shaw, C. Steding, M. Baumgartner, A. Hawkins, A. Houppert, N. Mason, M. Reed, F. Shaw, K. Simonelic, W. Woodward, and M. Lynch. 2005. Comparative evolutionary genetics of spontaneous mutations affecting fitness in rhabditid nematodes. Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. USA 102: 5785-5790.



Colbourne, J. K., B. Robison, K. Bogart, and M. Lynch. 2005. Five hundred and twenty eight microsatellite markers for ecological genomic investigations using Daphnia. Mol. Ecol. Notes 4: 485-490.



Force, A., W. Cresko, F. B. Pickett, S. Proulx, C. Amemiya, and M. Lynch. 2005. The origin of gene subfunctions and modular gene regulation. Genetics 170: 433-446.



Paland, S., J. K. Colbourne, and M. Lynch. 2005. Evolutionary history of contagious asexuality in Daphnia pulex. Evolution 59: 800-813.



Ajie, B. C., S. Estes, M. Lynch, and P. C. Phillips. 2005. Behavioral degradation under mutation accumulation. Genetics 170: 655-660.



Estes, S., Ajie, B. C., M. Lynch, and P. C. Phillips. 2005. Spontaneous mutational correlations for life-history, morphological, and behavioral characters in Caenorhabditis elegans. Genetics 170: 645-653.



Lynch, M. 2005. Intelligent design vs. intelligent evolution. Nature 435: 276.



Lynch, M. 2005. Simple evolutionary pathways to complex proteins. Protein Science 14: 2217-2225.



Lynch, M., X. Hong, and D. G. Scofield. 2006. Nonsense-mediated decay and the evolution of eukaryotic gene structure, pp. 197-211. In L. E. Maquat (ed.) Nonsense-mediated mRNA Decay. Landes Bioscience, Georgetown, TX.



Robinson, C. D., S. Lourido, S. P. Whelan, J. L. Dudycha, M. Lynch, and S. Isern. 2006. Viral transgenesis of embryonic cell cultures from the freshwater microcrustacean Daphnia. J. Exp. Zool. 305: 62-67.



Lynch, M. 2006. The origins of eukaryotic gene structure. Mol. Biol. Evol. 23: 450-468.



Paland, S., and M. Lynch. 2006. Transitions to asexuality result in excess amino-acid substitutions. Science 311: 990-902.



Lynch, M., B. Koskella, and S. Schaack. 2006. Mutation pressure and the evolution of organelle genome architecture. Science 311: 1727-1730.



Katju, V., and M. Lynch. 2006. On the formation of novel genes by duplication in the Caenorhabditis elegans genome. Mol. Biol. Evol. 23: 1056-1067.



Cristescu, M. E., J. K. Colbourne, J. Radivojac, and M. Lynch. 2006. A microsatellite-based genetic linkage map of the waterflea, Daphnia pulex: on the prospect of crustacean genomics. Genomics 88: 415-430.



Denver, D. R., S. Feinberg, C. Steding, M. Durbin, and M. Lynch. 2006. The relative roles of three DNA repair pathways in preventing Caenorhabditis elegans mutation accumulation. Genetics 174: 57-65.



Hong, X., D. G. Scofield, and M. Lynch. 2006. Intron size, abundance, and distribution within untranslated regions of genes. Mol. Biol. Evol. 23: 2392-2404.



Snoke, M. S., T. U. Berendonk, D. Barth, and M. Lynch. 2006. Elevated effective population sizes in unicellular eukaryotes. Mol. Biol. Evol. 23: 2474-2479.



Lynch, M. 2006. Streamlining and simplification of microbial genome architecture. Ann. Rev. Microbiol. 60:327-349.



Omilian, A. R., M. E. A. Cristescu, J. L. Dudycha, and M. Lynch. 2006. Ameiotic recombination in asexual lineages. Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. USA 103: 18638-18643.



Scofield, D. G., X. Hong, and M. Lynch. 2007. Position of the final intron in full-length transcripts: determined by NMD? Mol. Biol. Evol. 24: 896-899.



Lynch, M. 2007. The frailty of adaptive hypotheses for the origins of organismal complexity. Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. USA 104 Suppl.: 8597-8604.



Rho, M., J. H. Choi, S. Kim, M. Lynch, and H. Tang. 2007. De novo identification of LTR retrotransposons in eukaryotic genomes. BMC Genomics 8: 90.



Lynch, M. 2007. The evolution of genetic networks by nonadaptive processes. Nature Reviews Genetics (in press).

I'd like to see what he says in the last publication listed above.
285 posted on 04/24/2008 5:30:25 AM PDT by AndrewC (You should go see "Expelled")
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To: AndrewC
No, I am not. The researcher drew the valid implication. I explained what the implication meant.

Would you expect someone who subscribes to a theory of divine creation to be expected to abandon that theory on equivalent "evidence" to the contrary?

286 posted on 04/24/2008 5:38:27 AM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: count-your-change
The heart and soul of Dawkins’ belief is atheism, belief in evolution is just a side issue, a convenience. His arrogant bias is so great that he considers those that disagree with him “ignorant, evil, insane’.

In that sense he resembles many of the evos on this forum.

287 posted on 04/24/2008 5:39:03 AM PDT by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
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To: tacticalogic
Oh, I looked up that last reference.

Analysis

Nature Reviews Genetics 8, 803-813 (October 2007) | doi:10.1038/nrg2192

The evolution of genetic networks by non-adaptive processes

Michael Lynch1  About the author

Although numerous investigators assume that the global features of genetic networks are moulded by natural selection, there has been no formal demonstration of the adaptive origin of any genetic network. This Analysis shows that many of the qualitative features of known transcriptional networks can arise readily through the non-adaptive processes of genetic drift, mutation and recombination, raising questions about whether natural selection is necessary or even sufficient for the origin of many aspects of gene-network topologies. The widespread reliance on computational procedures that are devoid of population-genetic details to generate hypotheses for the evolution of network configurations seems to be unjustified.

I think "Nature Reviews Genetics" is peer-reviewed. And I guess analysis is science.

288 posted on 04/24/2008 5:42:10 AM PDT by AndrewC (You should go see "Expelled")
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To: AndrewC

Okay, it’s peer reviewed. Now we wait for the results to be reproduced, and the results of whatever new research comes from the questions raised. Got popcorn?


289 posted on 04/24/2008 5:45:44 AM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: tacticalogic
Would you expect someone who subscribes to a theory of divine creation to be expected to abandon that theory on equivalent "evidence" to the contrary?

Ask the person that meets your criteria. I didn't expect any similar result from you. I am merely arguing that there is a controversy and that Darwinism has great big gaping holes in it.

290 posted on 04/24/2008 5:47:59 AM PDT by AndrewC (You should go see "Expelled")
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To: AndrewC
Ask the person that meets your criteria. I didn't expect any similar result from you. I am merely arguing that there is a controversy and that Darwinism has great big gaping holes in it.

So you've concluded that this does constitute a "big gaping hole". Would you be willing to accept that hole had been closed if the evolution researchers told you they have research that closes those holes, but that information is their property?

291 posted on 04/24/2008 5:53:13 AM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: AndrewC
No, I'm telling you to ask someone doing the ID research.

But you don't know which ones are doing research on that specific question. How do I know which one to ask? Is it possible that no one is doing it?

292 posted on 04/24/2008 6:28:13 AM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: dr_lew

>>Needless to say, this is the point at issue.

Cf. Whether ID is science in the Dover Decision<<

No it isn’t. The point is whether a person that believes ID may be involved in how life began is being shuned from the scientific community merely because of a belief in something that cannot be proven or unproven - AND that belief is very common among reasonable men.

I believe in the existence of human consciousness (not to be confused with human intelligence), yet it’s existence cannot be proven or disproven. Just because that is not science, does it mean I should not be allowed to participate in science?


293 posted on 04/24/2008 7:04:49 AM PDT by RobRoy (This is comical)
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To: tacticalogic
Would you be willing to accept that hole had been closed if the evolution researchers told you they have research that closes those holes, but that information is their property?

They own natural selection? In any case, it is not a matter of whether I accept it or not. If it is evidence present it. But whoever would have discovered it, they are pretty quick since the analysis was published 6 months ago.

294 posted on 04/24/2008 7:27:31 AM PDT by AndrewC (You should go see "Expelled")
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To: P-Marlowe
Yes, I’ve been around long enough to notice.
While arrogance is not confined to evolutionists, it does seem to be very acceptable therein. I suppose its because science holds a place of respect in our society even if it's little understood. Evolution claims it is “scientific” and therefore should be afforded the same respect and acceptance.
And because people are willing to comment on Darwinism without having read Darwin (or the Bible without having read more than a few favorite passages) I asked how many had actually read, “On the Origin of the Species..”. Not a large number I'd venture.
In any case, thanks for your observation. Good day.
295 posted on 04/24/2008 7:33:09 AM PDT by count-your-change (you don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: AndrewC
In any case, it is not a matter of whether I accept it or not. If it is evidence present it.

I ask the same of the ID proponents, and get nothing. It's not supposed to be their job to present it, it's supposed to be my job to go ask for it, and their decision as to whether they want to comply.

296 posted on 04/24/2008 7:37:54 AM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: tacticalogic
But you don't know which ones are doing research on that specific question.

What specific question? A specific question would be, "What tests are used to test the hypothesis that mesonychus is a direct ancestor of the humpback whale?" You then could ask someone in that field. So ask someone who can answer your question. I keep repeating, I am not an ID researcher. You are probably not a biochemist doing research, so it would be fruitless for me to ask you how one tests the hypothesis proposed by Lynch. That would be due to the "fact" that I would not believe any answer that you gave since you are not a biochemist doing research. I would have to ask one doing the research to have any confidence in the answer.

297 posted on 04/24/2008 7:37:54 AM PDT by AndrewC (You should go see "Expelled")
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To: AndrewC

Nice dance, but no sale.


298 posted on 04/24/2008 7:40:15 AM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: tacticalogic
I ask the same of the ID proponents, and get nothing.

I just gave you evidence. You broke out the popcorn.

299 posted on 04/24/2008 7:40:21 AM PDT by AndrewC (You should go see "Expelled")
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To: tacticalogic
Nice dance, but no sale.

I didn't expect a sale, you've got no currency.

300 posted on 04/24/2008 7:41:18 AM PDT by AndrewC (You should go see "Expelled")
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