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Judge says FLDS children will stay in custody, orders DNA tests
The Salt Lake Tribune ^ | 04/19/2008 | Brooke Adams and Kristen Moulton

Posted on 04/19/2008 10:46:28 AM PDT by ricks_place

SAN ANGELO, Texas - In a swift end to a trying, emotional hearing, a Texas judge said Friday night that 416 children are better off in state custody than with their parents, who belong to a controversial polygamous sect.

If the parents are ever to get their children back, they will have to provide a safe environment, 51st District Judge Barbara Walther told about 75 mothers and fathers of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

The Texas Child Protective Services used just four witnesses to persuade the judge that a polygamous community where underage girls sometimes marry is a threat to all children.

The ruling came two weeks after authorities raided the sect's ranch nearEldorado and five years after the FLDS, based on the Utah-Arizona border, expanded to western Texas.

CPS spokeswoman Marleigh Meisner said the department will move fast to place the children in foster homes or in customized arrangements as recommended by a psychiatrist who told the judge traditional foster care would be "destructive." She added that children will be placed with relatives only if appropriate.

FLDS women sat motionless inside Walther's courtroom as she issued her ruling. Afterward, they huddled with attorneys, listening as the decision was explained, somber but showing no anger.

Inside the City Hall auditorium one block away,

(Excerpt) Read more at sltrib.com ...


TOPICS: Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: cult; dna; flds; jeffs; polygamy; ruling; sect
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To: ozaukeemom
There is no sexual abuse of any kind going on here. There is just a state psychologist who doesn't like these people. He said everyone is happy and consenting to live there, but then says that is because they have been programmed to by an authoritarian environment. He wouldn't know authoritarianism if it bit him - he is its walking embodiment.

In case nobody even noticed, no one in that church has been shown to have committed the slightest crime, sexual or otherwise, under Texas law or US law or any other law. They just aren't popular with a few Nazi state officials. That is quite literally all.

21 posted on 04/19/2008 11:13:39 AM PDT by JasonC
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To: stinkerpot65
He’s wrong because he is a pedophile

Jumping to conclusions a bit early aren't we? This man has neither been arrested, charged or in any way shown to have directly participated in a sex crime with a minor. Lets hold back on the name calling until he has at least been charged.

22 posted on 04/19/2008 11:13:42 AM PDT by taxcontrol
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To: taxcontrol

There are multiple children under the age of consent that are pregnant.

How do you explain that?


23 posted on 04/19/2008 11:16:03 AM PDT by tokenatheist (Can I play with madness?)
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To: JasonC

What age do you feel is too young to get married?


24 posted on 04/19/2008 11:16:48 AM PDT by tokenatheist (Can I play with madness?)
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To: org.whodat
I'm sorry you do not understand the law in this case, please buy a law book for dummies. :^)

You mean stupid stuff like this one?

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district where in the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defense.

Darn, that US Constitution and that pesky 6th Amendment.

Perhaps instead of being gutless and ignorantly flaming me, you should take your own advice. Oh, in case you were wondering, heres the link so you can read up on the basics.

25 posted on 04/19/2008 11:17:34 AM PDT by Hodar (With Rights, come Responsibilities. Don't assume one, without assuming the other.)
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To: Hodar
A prank phone call that may not even have occurred, that is pure smear, the state cannot produce a single witness to colloborate its claims, the state cannot even find anyone of the name allegedly behind the call. The only "evidence" they have of anything is that some girls of 16 and 17 living there are pregnant. The age of consent in Texas is 17, but there is an explicit provision in the law that consensual sex between a man and a woman within 3 years of age of one another, excuses going below that age line. The state has no evidence that the husbands of the few younger pregnant women were over age 20 at the time of what everyone involved agrees was entirely consensual.

The state simply has no evidence of wrongdoing of any kind. But it doesn't like these people, so it kidnaps their children.

26 posted on 04/19/2008 11:17:53 AM PDT by JasonC
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To: tokenatheist
Remember Texas law allows for minors to marry with the consent of their parents at the age of 16.
27 posted on 04/19/2008 11:18:14 AM PDT by taxcontrol
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To: Hodar

As we said in the Old Neighbourhood, Did your Mama have any children that lived?

If this particular cult was raping little boys instead of little girls,you would be down there with pitchforks and torches, tar and feathers. But I suppose you believe along with the Georgia legislator who said *Well at least rape is NORMAL!

You are of course free to take your daughters and sell them to the old men of any cult you choose. That is guaranteed to you in the Constitution, as you quite rightly point out. Girls are not mentioned in the Constitution, so they do not even count as 3/5 of a person. All they are really are playthings for old men....


28 posted on 04/19/2008 11:18:35 AM PDT by Appleby
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To: tokenatheist
There are multiple children under the age of consent that are pregnant.

Including a 16 year old who has had 4 children. There are consent laws for a reason.

29 posted on 04/19/2008 11:19:51 AM PDT by the808bass
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To: tokenatheist
I have no great conviction in the matter. In the past, societies have gone as low as puberty and it has worked for its day and age. These people are basically living a 19th century life, which they are free to do. But what I want is irrelevant - Texas law is that the age of consent is 17 (not for marriage, naturally, but for sex), but also that it is fine below that age as long as the parties are within 3 years of each others age, and it is all consensual. Texas doesn't prosecute high school kids for making out. But it doesn't like these people, so it kidnaps their children.
30 posted on 04/19/2008 11:20:43 AM PDT by JasonC
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To: JasonC

13 year olds having babies does not constitute or indicate sexual abuse to you? OK, I am just appalled.


31 posted on 04/19/2008 11:21:34 AM PDT by ozaukeemom (Nuke the ACLU and their snivel rights)
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To: org.whodat

Well, what exactly does that mean? Are they in juvenile jail, or incarcerated in locked rooms in an institution? Are they free to speak to their attorneys, and to the press?


32 posted on 04/19/2008 11:21:51 AM PDT by proxy_user
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To: tokenatheist
The Texas age of consent has an explicit exception for couples within 3 year of each others age. Nobody has proven that any of the younger mothers partners were over that age. Texas doesn't arrest high school kids for making out.
33 posted on 04/19/2008 11:22:38 AM PDT by JasonC
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To: Hodar

No one flamed you, this is a civil procedure not a criminal. Maybe you should start out in the correct court.


34 posted on 04/19/2008 11:22:40 AM PDT by org.whodat (What's the difference between a Democrat and a republican????)
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To: the808bass

So other than a lame flame; do you have any evidence to support your position?

I have video of school buses with “First Baptist Church” emblazoned on the side, in which the kids were taken. I also have news sources that state that the children were taken to “First Baptist Church” property.

A semi-intelligent person would no use this sort of material. Consider, if you were raiding a Muslim group, would you use Jewish school buses, and take the children to a Jewish synagogue? No, because that would incite and would give the wrong impression. Perhaps you should spend a few moments and look at the FLDS and what they experienced in the past at the hands of intolerant “Christians”.

So, what do you have to show that the first Baptist Church is totally neutral in this matter?


35 posted on 04/19/2008 11:23:21 AM PDT by Hodar (With Rights, come Responsibilities. Don't assume one, without assuming the other.)
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To: rightazrain

I feel literally sick. I just told someone else, I better take a break again from FR. Not liking a lot of what I read.


36 posted on 04/19/2008 11:26:16 AM PDT by ozaukeemom (Nuke the ACLU and their snivel rights)
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To: ozaukeemom
Not to me, to Texas, if the father is 16. The law in Texas is, consensual sex between parties within 3 years of age of one another is legal. If the parties are not within that age of one another, then the age of consent is 17. Note that it is an age of consent - the sole question the state is concerned with in the matter, is whether the persons involved are mature enough to give their consent, to avoid the powerless being exploited.

Also, men and women have been having children from puberty on throughout nearly all of human history. Raising the typical age for such things is no doubt prudent, and fits better our usual modern way of life. These people are living in a 19th century way, entirely. It should not be too surprising that their mores are those of the 19th century, if not before.

Nobody is forcing you to live that way, but if they want to, why should you care? Yes they should comply with the laws of their state. The state should also comply with them, and with the provisions of the US constitution. They aren't. There is no evidence these people aren't. Literally none.

37 posted on 04/19/2008 11:27:46 AM PDT by JasonC
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To: Hodar

Uh, they get to confront the witnesses IN TRIAL. Nobody is on trial yet. Good grief. You don’t even understand the basics.


38 posted on 04/19/2008 11:27:53 AM PDT by Politicalmom (Better a leftist Dem with energized GOP opposition, than a leftist "Republican" with no opposition.)
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To: stinkerpot65
The polygamist father it both wrong and right. He’s wrong because he is a pedophile, he is right because the CPS would love to take the children of every Christian family. Do Not Agree.
39 posted on 04/19/2008 11:29:26 AM PDT by ricks_place
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To: JasonC

Young males do not get the females in your typical polygamist sect.


40 posted on 04/19/2008 11:30:34 AM PDT by tokenatheist (Can I play with madness?)
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