Posted on 04/18/2008 6:30:59 PM PDT by granite
SAN ANGELO, Texas -- More than 400 children taken from a ranch run by a polygamous sect will stay in state custody and be subject to genetic testing, a judge ruled Friday. State District Judge Barbara Walther heard 21 hours of testimony over two days before ruling that the children be kept by the state. Individual hearings will be set for the children over the next several weeks. She ordered that all children and parents be given genetic testing. Child welfare officials have said they've had difficulty determining how the children and parents are related because of evasive or changing answers.
(Excerpt) Read more at latimes.com ...
Glad to see you clarify a few things about yourself. You said: “You started this conversation.”
No I did not, this is a thread on a public forum. You have been posting many, many more times than I and well before I showed up.
You said: “That may be true as I was posting them in the middle of the night without much sleep. I would have to go back and read them myself.”
That says much. I do not post in the middle of the night without much sleep myself because the brain is notably slow and not reliable. The wise posters all don’t do that I notice. You are clearly not in that bunch.
If you are admitting that you do not process thought yet you continue to speak and write as I said, than what is the matter with you?
I said you were clearly a male because your free and easy views, amounting to consent of the abuse of girls and women indicate so.
EXCELLENT QUOTE from my dear Mary Chesnut whom I do love and who called a spade a spade as well as she could for a woman of her time. She was no feminist but an educated and honest soul. What she said was true, spoken of her time and her place of residence in the 1800’s.
But a legal wife, “legally married under US law” today is not a slave to her husband. She may be emotionally, or mentally so, as I believe these FLDS women are, but not legally. Men who use methods to counter legality are scum. They are trying (and succeeding) with a form of slavery. And slavery, no matter which basis you argue it from, biblical or any other, is wrong. Our country, which I love, fought a bloody war and many fine men (and I love them for that ultimate sacrifice) died for that cause.
You tried to guess about me other than the extremely obvious fact that I am a woman. And you guessed, as the truth so often is, somewhere inbetween, meaning you are partly right.
Yup, I come from an Athiest (for her with a capital A) mother raised in Nazi Germany with stories to tell that would raise a few hairs. My father was a black man from the home of secession, South Carolina and a lifetime Army man. All us kids served in the military. Yup, I didn’t see my Dad a lot, he served 2 terms in Vietnam and was retired with disability. And yup my mother divorced him and remarried and divorced 2 more times. I did not have good role models but they did the best they knew how.
I myself found what I feel is the best man in the world on my own 3rd try after marrying a drug addict & alcoholic first go round. My hubby of long standing now is a far better a soul than I, so fine I would give my life up for him.
And my views? I’m am more deeply conservative than you can imagine my friend and yup, I have voted Republican since I was of legal age and in every single election. I grew up athiest because it was what I heard like any child does but I found my way to God. This forum has no room for a dissertation of that trip which has byways you’d be surprised at.
You, despite some words here and more because of your words here, don’t seem to me to be a true conservative. You are are content to stand by wrong under various excuses, I am not.
My husband, being a good man, a gentleman, he has made feel better about men in general, yes he has. BUT, I do not forgot that there are evil, sociopathic men and WOMEN in this world and they do not play by any of the rules of the majority of any peoples. They follow no biblical, legal or any other laws promulgated by religions or institutions or even individuals. These evil sociopathic sorts are a law unto themselves and if you cross their paths in life you might not live to tell the tale.
These FDLS men, some of them, are evil sociopathic sorts (so was Hitler) and like we had to do with Germany, at last good people are roused to root them out. Sometimes it takes a while to rouse people to action and sadly, much abuse and death (in WWII for example) occurs before this happens.
Do nothing and sooner or later, evil and or a sociopath will be at your door and who will be there to protect YOU?
I agree Texas is doing an awesome job.
In pondering this situation, I have a question. Many of those women that returned to the ranch are pregnant. What can/will the State of Texas do to protect the children that are born in the meantime?
No wardaddy, good men don’t support polygamy. You are one of the wiser posters as far as I’ve seen.
These guys didn’t round up pliable women, they bred them, raised them for generations.
Women and men have free will but lots of “unpleasant” people work entire lives to keep them from using it both by physical and mental and sometimes legal means. Germans had free will but did they use it? Many did not. Some did and died for trying to. This goes on every day that the world goes on, sadly.
I love and adore a good man and there are many, but JUST LIKE WOMEN, there are some horribly bad ones and often they pose as good or proclaim themselves to be so.
“No I did not, this is a thread on a public forum. You have been posting many, many more times than I and well before I showed up.”
Yes you did. You did POST generic information to everyone. You specifically used my user name and directed comments about me personally when I had not directed anything to you. You are free to read whatever I post publicly, and you are free to comment about these, and you are free to speak to me and others. But that you initiated a conversation with me is a simple fact. You are contradicting a simple, obvious fact.
“The wise posters all don’t do that I notice. You are clearly not in that bunch.”
Typical feminist. Note to self: never admit any faults to a feminist. She will never forgive but will simply pound you over the head with them. I feel great pity for your husband. Not only do you harbor bitterness toward men in general, but keep a running account of any faults. If you browbeat a perfect stranger, I can only imagine what he must go through.
“I said you were clearly a male because your free and easy views, amounting to consent of the abuse of girls and women indicate so.”
I never consented to any woman or girl or man or boy being abused.
“What she said was true, spoken of her time and her place of residence in the 1800’s.”
So my guess was right. You embrace these feminist ideas. You think ALL men were lazy slobs and ALL women were victims of the Judeo-Christian patriarchal society. You think feminists improved on it.
“But a legal wife, “legally married under US law” today is not a slave to her husband.”
She never was. Feminists see marriage as an adversarial relationship rather than what it is supposed to be: two people working together toward common goals, and each giving 100% sacrificially to the other. As time went by, adultery became more common among men and women. For a while it was grounds for justifiable homicide. That became viewed as unfair (to expect fidelity), and then the only recourse to those committed to marriage was to go after the third party for civil damages for alienation of affection. Finally, we arrive at modern morals in which a spouse can sleep around and bring disease home to his or her partner who has NO RIGHT to expect fidelity. And women can murder their babies. Some do because the men don’t want them. Some men do want them but are put through the hell of having their baby legally murdered. I know a woman who did that to her husband and reminded him of it often after they were divorced just to try to get at him. But feminism did oh so much for this nation. It reformed that foolish boys club that got this nation off to such a bad start.
“And slavery, no matter which basis you argue it from, biblical or any other, is wrong. Our country, which I love, fought a bloody war and many fine men (and I love them for that ultimate sacrifice) died for that cause.”
Slavery still exists, in some cases, because some people are unable to live free. Due to human trafficking, slavery is more common today than in any time in human history. Slavery that was allowed in the Old Testament was more similar to a combination of modern employment, education and credit than to the slavery that this nation ended in the Civil War. That slavery involved kidnapping which required the death penalty in the Bible.
And that is probably the one place I agree. With people held against their will, it does deserve the full force of the law.
Incidentally, slavery is still legal under the Constitution. Read it. “except as a punishment for crime where of the party shall have been duly convicted”. This is why convicts used to always work chain gangs. It works. (Some distinguish involuntary servitude and say that slavery is not allowed, but it is the same thing.) However, the Old Testament, which contains the model for our government, did not provide for incarceration. There were fines, there was corporeal punishment (fairly severe), there was a form of slavery, and there was the death penalty; but no prison.
“I did not have good role models but they did the best they knew how. I myself found what I feel is the best man in the world on my own 3rd try after marrying a drug addict & alcoholic first go round. My hubby of long standing now is a far better a soul than I, so fine I would give my life up for him.”
Well, that deserves some sympathy. I will try not to be so harsh from this point forward. Your confusion when it comes to feminism is understandable considering your experiences. I hope you find happiness this time and come to see the light when it comes to the destructiveness of feminism.
“You, despite some words here and more because of your words here, don’t seem to me to be a true conservative. “
Again, generalities. If you want to say age-of-consent morality is conservative and belies my conservatism then go ahead. But name it or whatever issue you think makes me less than a true conservative. Then support your position. I think I am conservative across the board. And I have been corrected more than a few times on this forum and admitted my errors. I am willing to learn. General statements like these do not move anything forward in this regard.
“BUT, I do not forgot that there are evil, sociopathic men and WOMEN “
I agree.
“These FDLS men, some of them, are evil sociopathic sorts (so was Hitler) and like we had to do with Germany, at last good people are roused to root them out. Sometimes it takes a while to rouse people to action and sadly, much abuse and death (in WWII for example) occurs before this happens.”
I just want the law consistently applied and based on a true standard of morality. What we have is selectively enforced laws designed to further a political agenda.
“Do nothing and sooner or later, evil and or a sociopath will be at your door and who will be there to protect YOU?”
Well, that is exactly why this thing scares me. I am not as afraid of this cult as I am of the state of Texas. Granted, the extreme measure of removing the children, deprogramming, etc. MAY be warranted. But it is scary to me as it is an unprecedented use of government powers.
To me, that is the bigger danger with the inmates running the asylum. I have little confidence that the judges, legislators, CPS workers, and others in charge are any more moral than this cult. The difference is that the authorities wield incredible power to break up families and place children in whatever environment they see fit. They see ALL the children as belonging to the state.
“I have voted Republican since I was of legal age and in every single election. “
That’s something I can support. It is unfortunate that Republican does not always equal conservative, but it generally beats the alternative.
uh no..for the millionth time.. the children were taken after the bogus phone call.. and there is nothing about girls saying they routinely marry old men.. maybe all the rumours you’ve heard or the MSM coverage has got you confused... no truth, no evidence.. no due process.. just 400 children taken because of a bogus phone call that hasn’t even been substantiated.. but you go ahead and hang people on heresay and rumour..
Don’t give them ideas...they might order the women to have abortions ‘to prevent the potential for child abuse’
Then what responsibility do the older women bear?
that is if women were being raped or forced into sex
It has NOT been proven that it was a “bogus” phone call. Other girls have stated that a girl named Sarah has gone missing.
I have read the warrant request, a LEGAL document, with underage girls’ statements that they routinely are raped by old men.
The law was followed to the letter here.
Being as they themselves were abused and are heavily intimidated I don’t see why they bear responsibility. The perps here are not the women, but the men whom no one has seen yet I notice.
They might, in my opinion of course, need to deprogram as best they can and be willing to keep the perp “fathers” away from their children once their children are proven to be their children. Not a fast process thanks to the mess the perps have made. The women and children are the victims in this particular case.
What is wanted, again, I state my opinion, is to break up this perverted, abusive pattern. It’s a quite a knot by the looks of it and while solving it won’t be perfect (nothing ever is) it is better than letting it go on till one ends up with a Guyana scenario.
I’m torn on this one. I absolutely don’t want the kids abused and we should prosecute those that have abused the children. However, this is a bit much stripping children from their mothers is a bit harsh; although it’s a lot better than what Janet Reno would do...she’d just burn them all alive and let it be settled by a higher power.
It’s a messy situation no doubt and there is no easy answer to it.
I’m usually on the Jack Booted Thugs threads, talking AGAINST whatever the latest police excess is, but I think Texas is doing an awesome job in this case.
Yes they are.
God bless them.
Evidence had nothing to do with it. They admitted wanting to cut the women off from their spiritual leaders.
Was referring to what could be gained, if anything, from the phones. The other reason was obvious.
Keep drinking the Kool-Aid.
The rest of us will fight to stop this government abuse, including the taking of our tax dollars to hand out as “grants” to those who have no intent of contributing to the society.
Excuse me, but when talking about missing young boys, we are not talking about LITTLE boys.
We are talking about comparable in age to the young girls who are forced to become “wives” when they begin to menstruate, and forced to have a baby every year.
You are hopeless, because you play games with truth, thinking that you have won a point over someone, but with each “play”, you drive yourself a greater distance away from truth.
Exactly...they could be huge, but young.
We are talking about comparable in age to the young girls who are forced to become “wives” when they begin to menstruate, and forced to have a baby every year.
Oh, so a girl who has passed menarche is a "young" girl? What's an old girl, then?
Or are you just trying to play on sympathy by using the term "young girl"?
In much of the world, these girls would be considered nubile, not off-limits. In fact, I believe that nubility should be older, because I believe there should be more emotional maturity to give consent, and you might note that I called them "girls"...but to say "young" girls is to just plain be disingenuous.
These are old girls or young women. Keep it honest...this is ephebophilia, not pedphilia.
Agreed. Once this works, we can move on to those women who are teaching their kids that homosexuality is wrong.
There are people here who have read the documents that are public record. In those documents is evidence that was allowed to be presented in a court hearing. It is based on what has been found after the compound was entered.
If you say it has nothing to do with evidence, when it does per those who have read it or were present in the court hearing, what does that make you?
And mercy, no, we must never entertain the thought that these women would be better off if they were not under the mental and physical and psychological control of these self-appointed sociopathic wacko freak men you call “spiritual leaders”.
Nope, once under their spell and control and scheme to order every aspect of a person’s life to the point they seem like soulless zombies, the best thing of course is to make sure they live out their other-ordered lives there and die there.
World without end.
Just as long as the state didn’t get involved, it’s fine.
So you are saying that they lied about why they took the cell phones, as they initially didn't say it was to gather evidence?
Wow...amazing.
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