Posted on 04/18/2008 6:30:59 PM PDT by granite
SAN ANGELO, Texas -- More than 400 children taken from a ranch run by a polygamous sect will stay in state custody and be subject to genetic testing, a judge ruled Friday. State District Judge Barbara Walther heard 21 hours of testimony over two days before ruling that the children be kept by the state. Individual hearings will be set for the children over the next several weeks. She ordered that all children and parents be given genetic testing. Child welfare officials have said they've had difficulty determining how the children and parents are related because of evasive or changing answers.
(Excerpt) Read more at latimes.com ...
Well, I count four in this picture...
Better check your rhetoric....you're spewing implications that don't match the facts and it's revealing your anti-American attitude isn't constrained by facts.
It's not the young boys that are the ones missing.
Please do so.
Thank you for supporting my point. Those who think that the CPS and authorities are just wonderful and can be trusted to do what's best for the children, without any oversight, are dangerously wrong. Even if it turns out they did right in this case, and the warrant is in order, etc., if nobody ensures that's the case, then next time they won't have to worry about what they do.
I'm sure Catholics would love to be cut off from the Pope's visit if the State decided that would be in their best interests...they'd just go along with it peacefully and trust The State.
You said: “But the simple fact that you can convict by what you read in a book, is not alarming?”
Just because I cited the book only, doesn’t mean I haven’t checked out other sources. You, apparently, have not.
This whole raid, like any occurance, didn’t just start the moment YOU heard about it, no more than the world began the moment you were born.
Fishing for "evidence"? I'm sure everyone here could withstand a full government probe into all of their comings and goings.
Do as I just did and read the book “Escape” of a woman from that very group. That book will leave you no doubt about the situation.
“Each room in that compound does NOT have a picture of Jesus, it has a picture of their “prophet”. They worship and obey HIM, not God. And that is what the witness stated.”
Ok..number one..you are doing what the liberals do..in reverse.. you want them rounded up and their children taken because they don’t believe like you.. is that it?
number two.. do we know if this is a credible witness...do YOU know that for a fact? You are rounding up people and taking their children on this? I hope someone never makes accusations on you. You don’t need real evidence..you need heresay.. that’s not how our justice system works..but because they don’t think like you, that’s ok. I don’t like pagans either, but I would never do this to them just because we don’t think alike.
You said: “This is a quote from your post:
Do as I just did and read the book “Escape” of a woman from that very group. That book will leave you no doubt about the situation.”
Yes. And as I said, I checked other sources though I only cited one book. You, on the other hand, blow hot air without citing anything or consulting anything other than your own navel.
I direct a person somewhere, you do not.
Now its all making sense.. I forgot the party line... and I forgot that a liberal and a conservative can sometimes agree on how the government knows whats best for us... Liberals want children removed from Christian homeschooling families, and Conservatives want children removed from Christian homeschooling FLDS families...
so any teen pregnancy should be “investigated” according to you? does that “investigation” include removing every other child in the house? I don’t want to live in your facist world, thanks.. you give the liberals fodder and conservatives a black eye.
“But more often, it does.”
Figures. And you know this because?
“age is supposed to guide youth in wisdom, not take advantage of and use youth for it’s own pleasure.”
I agree. Obviously you either misunderstand or misrepresent what I have said.
I, quite frankly, cannot imagine a teenage girl being happily married to someone three times her age. Maybe if it was a good looking, rich celebrity, but then those Hollywood marriage are worse statistically than the rest. And I cannot see how someone that old could get married to someone that young as an act of love rather than lust. And I cannot imagine a father willing to give his young daughter in such a marriage. But I stand by my assertion that age-of-consent laws do not really protect children generally (not that they have not been used in some specific situations to protect children). Nor is age-of-consent (aka consenting adults) morality supported by the Bible. I am more than willing to be proved wrong. Strong words and emotional opinions don’t count.
“I’ve read this entire thread and your posts are uniformly unbalanced and frankly alarming.”
That says a lot about you. You started this conversation. Care to be more specific?
“You speak and write but you do not hear nor process thought.”
That may be true as I was posting them in the middle of the night without much sleep. I would have to go back and read them myself. But again you are being very vague.
I once went to lunch with a lady I worked with who is extremely obese. I drove us to Taco Bell. Some complete stranger insulted her as we walked in the door by telling her she did not need more fast food. You remind me of that rude stranger. It is easy to be rude and insulting to people who don’t share your views. But maybe it is not such a good idea to insult a total stranger because you don’t like what they have to say. I was not even talking to you. When you browsed my comments, did you bother to read the posts to which I was replying?
“I’m glad I do not know you personally. You are also clearly a male.”
Are these two related? Do you not like men?
“I’m glad I do not know you personally.”
Then why are you getting so personal. You have offered nothing of any substance, just come out of the blue and insulted a complete stranger.
“You are also clearly a male.”
How insightful. The way you say it, you appear to think that warrants an apology. No. I am a male. That is what God made me. I accept it and will not apologize for it.
On the other hand, you are not just female, but are a feminist. Let me do some guessing like you. You grew up with liberal parents, or perhaps a liberal mom without a dad at home (and are still bitter at him). So you vote Republican but share your mom’s feminist views and her hatred of men. You think voting Republican means you are a conservative. You think going to church means you follow the Bible. You think because you don’t cheat on your husband, you are a moral person. Am I getting warm at all?
Here’s a famous quote by your feminist hero:
“There is no slave, after all, like a wife.”
- Mary Boykin Chestnut
If you can prove my position is wrong by the Bible, I will concede. Or if you don’t believe the Bible, then argue whatever is the basis of your morality. Otherwise why did you even bother to post to me?
:-)
Excellent point.
Thank you for your thoughtful post.
Evidence is required for convictions, not supposition and conjecture. As of yet, there are no charges even filed yet some have convicted and sentenced them.
Once found guilty, you may have your choice of punishment, I have no use for child molesters.
Uh, NO, for about the fiftieth time. The children were taken after underage pregnancies were witnessed, and under questioning the girls said they routinely “marry” old men.
“His consent? CONSENT? They were forced! They don’t ask their dads to get married. They are told whom they will marry!
Just so no one takes what I said out of context, “his consent” refers to the father of a bride historically. We still go through the motions of asking “who gives this woman”.
The account by the “expert” in this case said the teenage girls were willing but did not understand. If that is true, it is not forced.
It may be sick. It may be harmful. It may warrant removing children, but that is not forced marriage. It is arranged marriage.
Muslims practice forced marriage. Forced marriage is not a real marriage because a marriage is a covenant which means both parties must agree (even if they do not initiate the covenant).
“Menstruation is not a sign that a young girl is ready to have a baby. “
It is part of what is needed for childbirth. I never claimed that physical maturity guarantees sufficient emotional, spiritual or social maturity to handle marriage. Quite frankly, most Americans in their thirties are not mature enough.
“However, that pregnancy is much more likely to result in complications than if she were older.”
A doctor who has delivered many babies told me that teenage girls are usually physically more fit for child birth than other age groups. The statistical reason for problems is the likelihood that a teenager may be stigmatized and not find the proper health support or counsel. Her low maturity level in other areas may lead her to make other harmful choices. For example, many teenage girls do not intend to get pregnant but do so accidentally while engaging in risky behavior. This may include drugs and alcohol. While it is statistically true that teenage pregnancies often result in complications, this does not imply a health correlation to her physical maturity. The exception to this is that some girls are able to get pregnant before their hips widen sufficiently to deliver a large baby. Even then, it is uncommon for problems due to physical maturity alone.
That being said, do not construe this to mean I advocate arranged marriages of teenagers. In a moral society, i.e. one that follows God’s laws of sexuality, early marriage would probably be rare as it has always been in this country. Age of consent laws came about due to feminism in the late eighteen hundreds. Before that sates either had none or they were quite low, as low as eight if memory serves correctly. But these laws were not exploited because fathers led and protected their families, and society was generally much more moral in regards to sexuality. Then most people waited until marriage even if marriage was delayed.
See post #126 at the link. The lady does her homework, as do I.
So am I, do you think men are more likely to support polygamy?
These guys sure were able to round up a lot of pliable women.
Women I know have free will.
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