Posted on 04/18/2008 6:40:10 AM PDT by paterfamilias
Maher to Apologize for Calling Pope a 'Nazi' By Melanie Hunter-Omar CNSNews.com Senior Editor April 17, 2008
(CNSNews.com) - Liberal talk show host Bill Maher, whose controversial comments about the pope drew fire from the Catholic community, is planning to apologize Friday night for falsely accusing Pope Benedict XVI of being a Nazi, the Catholic League announced Thursday.
Catholic League President Bill Donohue received a phone call Thursday from an HBO executive regarding comments Maher made last Friday on HBO's "Real Time With Bill Maher."
As Cybercast News Service previously reported, Donohue said Maher "lied when he said the Pope 'used to be a Nazi.' Like all young men in Germany at the time, he was conscripted into a German Youth organization (from which he fled as soon as he could). Every responsible Jewish leader has acknowledged this reality and has never sought to brand the Pope a Nazi. That job falls to Maher."
Apparently HBO agreed with Donohue's assessment. "Apparently, now Maher does as well. Ergo, the apology," Donohue said.
So will the Catholic League accept Maher's apology?
"Assuming it comes across as genuine, the answer is yes. But I hasten to add that what we would really like to see is for Maher to stop with his hateful diatribes against the Catholic Church. So this is a start, but it hardly puts to rest our concerns," said Donohue.
"After all, there are plenty of factually accurate things Maher could say about other groups that would insult its members, but he chooses not to go there. Perhaps he can add Catholics and the Catholic Church to that protected list as well," he added.
False.
Gal.5: [4] Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
There are two meanings to the word justified.
1. The act of justifying or the state of being justified; a showing or proving to be just or conformable to law, justice, right, or duty; http://www.webster-dictionary.net/d.aspx?w=Justification
James is speaking of the second, Paul is speaking about the first.
Rom.4: 2] For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. [3] For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. [4] Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. [5] But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Your interpretation.
John 3: [36] He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
According to your personal interpretation of Scripture.
Titus 3: [5] Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Thank you for sharing your personal interpretation of Scripture.
Thank you for sharing your personal interpretation of Scripture.
Nothing personal about it, just objective and factual.
If you are referring to the concept of in persona Christi, this does not mean "another Christ", it means "in the person of Christ", an important distinction that should be clear. Explained better here, by our Holy Father, than I ever could, this quote should clarify the distinction if not clear already by the words above, "In the sacred mysteries, [the priest] does not represent himself and does not speak expressing himself, but speaks for the Other, for Christ." Thus, the priest represents the one Christ at Mass, he does not "replace Christ", as the phrase "another Christ" implies.
I don't know of any Catholic dogma that teaches priests are "another Christ".
Given this context, and referring back to the Book of Deuteronomy, we can see what St. Paul's intent was when writing the particular phrase, "not by works of righteousness which we have done". It means "not by adhering to the Law of Moses, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost". This, obviously, does not necessarily preclude the necessity for good works in toto; indeed, as we read earlier in the same book, we are told to be "eager to do what is good." (cf Titus 2:14).
Wrong three times.
Tell that to Father Baker...
"Simply stated, the Catholic priest is another Christ. Through his ordination he has been granted the amazing gift of being a channel of divine grace for the eternal salvation of those he come into contact with—both in his official ministry and in his personal life..."
And please don't tell us we don't understand what the definition of "is" is.
"It" is blasphemy, plain and simple.
Wrong three times.
Actually, correct all three times.
Correct about what Romans is teaching, justification for salvation by faith without works.
Correct on what James says, that works SHOW ones Justification.
Correct in that the meanings of both meanings for the word justification are found in any dictionary.
3 for 3.
Pr.24: [7] Wisdom is too high for a fool
How in the world do you connect Tit.3:5 to Deut 9:5?
Did you read Deut.9:5?
Tit.3:5 speaks of the mercy of God being the reason we are saved, while Deut.9:5 speaks of the people being kicked out of the land for their wickedness.
One has nothing to do with the other.
Given this context, and referring back to the Book of Deuteronomy, we can see what St. Paul's intent was when writing the particular phrase, "not by works of righteousness which we have done". It means "not by adhering to the Law of Moses, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost". This, obviously, does not necessarily preclude the necessity for good works in toto; indeed, as we read earlier in the same book, we are told to be "eager to do what is good." (cf Titus 2:14).
It excludes good works as a means for salvation!
A saved person is to produce fruit/works(Gal.5:22-24, Jn.15, 2Tim 3:17,Tit 2:14).
Salvation comes only by faith in Christ and you cannot do any works to obtain it. (Eph.2:8-9, Rom.5:4, Gal.3:26)
Thank you for your own personal interpretation of Scripture.
That's a rather curious response. I don't understand how you can't see the clear parallel between Titus 3:5 and Deut 9:5. Let me post Deut 9:5 for clarification:
Not for thy righteousness, or for the uprightness of thine heart, dost thou go to possess their land: but for the wickedness of these nations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee, and that he may perform the word which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
The portion in bold is a clear parallel to the phrase "Not by works of righteousness which we have done", in Titus 3:5. The message of Deut 9:5 is that, not by adhering to the law of Moses did the Israelites come to possess the land of Anak, but rather, only due to the LORD, and the LORD's promise to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, were the Israelites able to conquer the Anakim. IOW, the Israelites' "good works" had nothing to do with their victory over the Anakim.
Again, this is a parallel, a foreshadowing of what was to come with Christ. Only with Christ, are we able to achieve the greatest victory, not a victory in war, conquering land, but rather the victory over death. Again, the reason St. Paul alluded to Deut 9:5 was to show the insufficiency of the Law of Moses to achieve anything, much less overcome death, but it does not necessarily show that we are to forgo all good works, as again, earlier we read that we should be eager to do good works. (cf Titus 2:14).
A saved person is to produce fruit/works(Gal.5:22-24, Jn.15, 2Tim 3:17,Tit 2:14).
Well, here we agree and disagree. I agree that the "saved" do good works; for some reason though it seems you do not believe these good works are required of the "saved".
Anyway, thanks again for teaching me something about my faith!
The reason I believe that works are not required for salvation is because the scripture clearly teaches that one cannot be saved by mixing faith and works.
Rom.4: [4] Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. [5] But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. [6] Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
There is nothing ambiguous about those statements.
Nothing personal about dictionary meanings-objective facts.
Which has nothing to do with your personal interpretation of Scripture.
Actually, the statements made in Rom 4:4-6 are "ambiguous" if, again, one does not realize that St. Paul is referring to the law of Moses when he speaks of "works" in this instance. This is where many who ascribe to sola fide run astray of the message of Sacred Scripture; when each instance of "works" is erroneously, automatically associated with any good works, not just the works associated with the law of Moses. IOW, when St. Paul speaks of "works" in all of his letters, sometimes he is referring to the "works of the law" (i.e, Mosaic law); sometimes he is referring simply to "good works". Rom 4:4-6 is referring to the former "works". It is the task of a student of Scripture to rightfully discern which kind of "works" St. Paul refers to at any given time.
Rom 4:13-15, "It was not through the law that the promise was made to Abraham and his decendants that he would inherit the world, but through the righteousness that comes from faith. For if those who adhere to the law are the heirs, faith is null and the promise is void. For the law produces wrath; but where there is no law, neither is there violation."
And...
Gal 3:8-12, "Scripture, which saw in advance that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, foretold the good news to Abraham, saying, "Through you shall all the nations be blessed." Consequently, those who have faith are blessed along with Abraham who had faith. For all who depend on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, "Cursed be everyone who does not persevere in doing all the things written in the book of the law." And that no one is justified before God by the law is clear, for "the one who is righteous by faith will live." But the law does not depend on faith; rather, "the one who does these things will live by them". "
These passages, especially verse 12 of Gal 3, indicate that it is adherence to the law of Moses and the works associated thereof which St. Paul indicates are ineffectual for initial justification. Why? Because it is "grace through faith" (cf. Eph 2:8) that comes first, before works, but both are "done by them" (cf. Gal 3:12) eventually.
No one is initially justified by adherence to any law. On this actually Catholics do not disagree. Where we disagree with those who adhere to sola fide is that following faith, there must be good fruits produced, or else the "faith" is "dead". (cf Jas 2:26)
Actually, the statements made in Rom 4:4-6 are "ambiguous" if, again, one does not realize that St. Paul is referring to the law of Moses when he speaks of "works" in this instance. This is where many who ascribe to sola fide run astray of the message of Sacred Scripture; when each instance of "works" is erroneously, automatically associated with any good works, not just the works associated with the law of Moses. IOW, when St. Paul speaks of "works" in all of his letters, sometimes he is referring to the "works of the law" (i.e, Mosaic law); sometimes he is referring simply to "good works". Rom 4:4-6 is referring to the former "works". It is the task of a student of Scripture to rightfully discern which kind of "works" St. Paul refers to at any given time.
Abraham wasn't under the Mosaic law and therefore what Paul was referring to was all works that could be construed as adding to salvation.
Just as Paul writes in Eph.2:8-9 and Peter writes in Acts 15:11.
Rom 4:13-15, "It was not through the law that the promise was made to Abraham and his decendants that he would inherit the world, but through the righteousness that comes from faith. For if those who adhere to the law are the heirs, faith is null and the promise is void. For the law produces wrath; but where there is no law, neither is there violation." And... Gal 3:8-12, "Scripture, which saw in advance that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, foretold the good news to Abraham, saying, "Through you shall all the nations be blessed." Consequently, those who have faith are blessed along with Abraham who had faith. For all who depend on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, "Cursed be everyone who does not persevere in doing all the things written in the book of the law." And that no one is justified before God by the law is clear, for "the one who is righteous by faith will live." But the law does not depend on faith; rather, "the one who does these things will live by them". " These passages, especially verse 12 of Gal 3, indicate that it is adherence to the law of Moses and the works associated thereof which St. Paul indicates are ineffectual for initial justification. Why? Because it is "grace through faith" (cf. Eph 2:8) that comes first, before works, but both are "done by them" (cf. Gal 3:12) eventually.
Once grace comes FIRST then you are saved,
Col.1: [13] Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
Eph.2 [6] And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
You will note that both tenses are in the past.
When one is saved, it is an event, not a process (1Cor.1:18).
Works follow as a result, they have nothing to do with salvation.
No one is initially justified by adherence to any law. On this actually Catholics do not disagree. Where we disagree with those who adhere to sola fide is that following faith, there must be good fruits produced, or else the "faith" is "dead". (cf Jas 2:26)
The good fruit produced show ones salvation, and are a result of it, no more than fruit has anything to do with the root, it is the root that produces the fruit.
Christ said that any vine not producing fruit He would remove (sin unto death-1Jn.5:16), and those that are would be purged to produced more.
Jn.15 [2] Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
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