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To: FourtySeven
I think it's important to remember, as I'm sure you know, that when reading Scripture one must remember to put each jot and tittle in it's proper context. For example, in the letter of St. Paul to Titus, chapter 3, verse 5, St. Paul is referring to Deut 9:5, to make a greater point about the (now) revealed mystery of Christ. That is, the passage in Deuteronomy is another example of the hidden mystery that was kept from the Jews until Christ came to reveal everything.

How in the world do you connect Tit.3:5 to Deut 9:5?

Did you read Deut.9:5?

Tit.3:5 speaks of the mercy of God being the reason we are saved, while Deut.9:5 speaks of the people being kicked out of the land for their wickedness.

One has nothing to do with the other.

Given this context, and referring back to the Book of Deuteronomy, we can see what St. Paul's intent was when writing the particular phrase, "not by works of righteousness which we have done". It means "not by adhering to the Law of Moses, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost". This, obviously, does not necessarily preclude the necessity for good works in toto; indeed, as we read earlier in the same book, we are told to be "eager to do what is good." (cf Titus 2:14).

It excludes good works as a means for salvation!

A saved person is to produce fruit/works(Gal.5:22-24, Jn.15, 2Tim 3:17,Tit 2:14).

Salvation comes only by faith in Christ and you cannot do any works to obtain it. (Eph.2:8-9, Rom.5:4, Gal.3:26)

492 posted on 04/29/2008 1:54:49 AM PDT by fortheDeclaration ("Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people".-John Adams)
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To: fortheDeclaration
Tit.3:5 speaks of the mercy of God being the reason we are saved, while Deut.9:5 speaks of the people being kicked out of the land for their wickedness.

That's a rather curious response. I don't understand how you can't see the clear parallel between Titus 3:5 and Deut 9:5. Let me post Deut 9:5 for clarification:

Not for thy righteousness, or for the uprightness of thine heart, dost thou go to possess their land: but for the wickedness of these nations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee, and that he may perform the word which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

The portion in bold is a clear parallel to the phrase "Not by works of righteousness which we have done", in Titus 3:5. The message of Deut 9:5 is that, not by adhering to the law of Moses did the Israelites come to possess the land of Anak, but rather, only due to the LORD, and the LORD's promise to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, were the Israelites able to conquer the Anakim. IOW, the Israelites' "good works" had nothing to do with their victory over the Anakim.

Again, this is a parallel, a foreshadowing of what was to come with Christ. Only with Christ, are we able to achieve the greatest victory, not a victory in war, conquering land, but rather the victory over death. Again, the reason St. Paul alluded to Deut 9:5 was to show the insufficiency of the Law of Moses to achieve anything, much less overcome death, but it does not necessarily show that we are to forgo all good works, as again, earlier we read that we should be eager to do good works. (cf Titus 2:14).

A saved person is to produce fruit/works(Gal.5:22-24, Jn.15, 2Tim 3:17,Tit 2:14).

Well, here we agree and disagree. I agree that the "saved" do good works; for some reason though it seems you do not believe these good works are required of the "saved".

494 posted on 04/29/2008 9:10:33 AM PDT by FourtySeven (47)
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