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To: Dr. Eckleburg; Gamecock; irishtenor
Well, all I know is what I read in the Bible.

Oh boy!... Can you explain why there are so many different interpretations of the Bible? Can you explain why a large number of very devout, diligent, knowledgeable Bible scholars have debates over the interpretation of different parts of scripture? You seem to be completely clueless that can possible you may be interpreting those verses incorrectly.

"And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up; 15 that whosoever believeth may in him have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God sent not the Son into the world to judge the world; but that the world should be saved through him. "
John 3:14-17

"Well, all I know is what I read in the Bible". That's good, because you just read in the Bible that Christ was sent for THE WORLD, WHOSOEVER, not just some chosen elect. You have to twist scripture like pretzels to distort the clear meaning of these verses.

Cardinal rule #1. Never, ever build a whole huge doctrine on top of a few verses, ESPECIALLY when hundreds/thousands of other verses seem to contradict the few you are building on. This is so basic.

527 posted on 04/28/2008 5:24:21 PM PDT by AmericaUnited
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To: AmericaUnited; Gamecock; irishtenor; Manfred the Wonder Dawg; blue-duncan; 1000 silverlings; ...
There are no "other verses" that disprove God's election and salvation by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone.

Christ Himself tells us He does not pray for the world, but only for those whom the Father has given Him. (John 17:9) That should tell you something.

You're missing the bigger picture. Read some of the following links for clarity...

THE MEANING OF 'KOSMOS' IN JOHN 3:16
by Rev. Arthur W. Pink

And...

AN EXEGETICAL LOOK AT JOHN 3:16
How should we understand the most misused and mistreated verse in the whole Bible?
by Dr. C. Matthew McMahon

And...

THE ‘WORLD’ OF JOHN 3:16
DOES NOT MEAN
‘ALL MEN WITHOUT EXCEPTION’
by Rev. David J. Engelsma

And if these three pastors are not persuasive enough, read Christ's own words. Christ's sacrifice is sufficient for all men, effective only for the elect, according to God's will and not men's.

"I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them...

Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word" -- John 17:9-10,20

Salvation is the supernatural work of the Holy Spirit at the direction of God alone, for His glory alone. If you believe in Christ it is because God has graciously removed your stony heart and replaced it with a heart of flesh, and given you new eyes and new ears and a renewed mind with which to understand what Christ has done for you on the cross.

All glory to God. From the beginning.

528 posted on 04/28/2008 6:13:18 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: AmericaUnited; irishtenor; Manfred the Wonder Dawg
Your logic is truly dizzying.

You are guilty of what you accuse us of, building doctrine on a few verses.

The question in your postinbg is who are the “whosoever.”

It's the elect.

The precious < /sarcasm> term free will only occurs and hand full of times throughout Scripture, and never in a soteriological way. Election, predestination, etc occur dozens of times, and always in the context of God's Sovereign Grace.

You want to know why there are different interpretations? Because people don't want to let God be God. Romans chapter 9 is written for people just like you who don't want to believe the doctrine of election. Paul is answering you. I suggest you take up and read.

531 posted on 04/29/2008 12:33:06 AM PDT by Gamecock ("I find your lack of faith-disturbing" Darth Vader)
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