Posted on 04/15/2008 10:27:22 AM PDT by Snickering Hound
ELDORADO — Mothers separated from their children as part of a wide-ranging abuse investigation within a polygamist retreat accuse state officials of misleading them before taking their offspring into custody.
Authorities raided the sect's ranch more than a week ago in response to allegations that underage girls were forced to marry older men. Women and children from the secretive community were taken to a West Texas fort-turned-museum and a rodeo pavilion, but on Monday officials began separating women and some of their offspring without warning, members of the sect said.
While some women and children were taken from the shelters to the nearby San Angelo Coliseum, other women were allowed to return to the ranch — but only those who were childless or had children under the age of 5.
About three dozen of the women who returned to the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints ranch spoke out Monday, after 11 days in temporary shelters. They said in interviews that police surrounded them Monday and gave them a choice between returning home, or relocating to a women's shelter.
"It just feels like someone is trying to hurt us," said Paula, 38, who like other members of the sect declined to give her full name. "I do not understand how they can do this when they don't have a for sure knowledge that anyone has abused these children."
Marissa Gonzales, a spokeswoman for the Department of Family and Protective Services, said the move was a typical procedure taken by the agency.
"It is not the normal practice to allow parents to accompany the child when an abuse allegation is made," Gonzales said.
Brenda, a 37-year-old mother of two teenage boys, said the women were threatened with arrest if they resisted the court order. Previously, the women had been told they would stay with the children at least until Thursday, when a custody hearing is scheduled, she said.
A call to CPS for comment late Monday on the women's claims was not immediately returned.
CPS's closing of the shelters came a day after three mothers from the ranch petitioned Gov. Rick Perry to inspect the shelters to see firsthand how families were being treated. The women said the living conditions were cramped and that some of the children had become sick.
About 20 children were recovering from a mild case of chicken pox, said Dr. Sandra Guerra-Cantu with the state Health Department.
Perry spokesman Robert Black said the governor did not believe the children were being housed in poor conditions at the West Texas fort.
"Let's be honest here, this is not the Ritz," Black said. But he called the accommodations "clean and neat."
CPS said officials have been planning the move for a week but that the coliseum was unavailable earlier. About two dozen teenage boys were moved to a facility outside San Angelo with the judge's permission, CPS said. The location was not released.
The state is accusing the sect of physically and sexually abusing the youngsters and wants to strip their parents of custody and place the children in foster care or put them up for adoption. The sheer size of the case was an obstacle.
"Quite frankly, I'm not sure what we're going to do," state District Judge Barbara Walther said after a conference that included three to four dozen attorneys either representing or hoping to represent youngsters.
Brenda and others were critical of CPS, saying the agency misled them as to what was to happen Monday, weren't told why the children were removed from the compound and given inaccurate messages about opportunities to meet attorneys.
"We got to where we said, 'We cannot believe a word you say. We cannot trust you,'" she said.
Officials said the investigation began with a call from a young girl who has yet to be located by CPS. The women in the sect said they suspect she may be a bitter ex-member of the church.
The FLDS practice polygamy in arranged marriages, sometimes between underage girls and older men. The group has thousands of followers in two side-by-side towns in Arizona and Utah.
The church has repeatedly fought because of its lifestyle before. Men, women and children have been swept up in raids that took place in 1935, 1944 and 1953.
"It's been all through history, " said Brenda, the mother of two. "We were just here trying to live a peaceful, happy, sweet life. We don't understand why we can't do this freely."
The point I was making is early marriage is NOT the same as child abuse or molestation. I’m not advocating these people’s lifestyle, but contrary to your driving down the freeway analogy, they had removed themselves from society and were bothering no one.
As for polygamy being illegal: any state that has legalized the most unnatural of relationships as homosexual “marriage” or “unions” will have a VERY difficult time justifying any continued prohibition against polygamy.
Of course they are Mormon! They are following in your prophet’s footsteps.
So what’s the problem?
Excellent post!
They were bothering the little girls they raped, beat, and enslaved.
Apparently that doesn’t bother you.
Joseph Smith trumps Jesus doncha know?
Because they don’t follow our current prophet. That’s why prophets exist, to give revelation for the current day and circumstance. Our prophets have excommunicated polygamists for over 100 years. Therefore, they are no Mormons. Just like the Reorganized LDS, or Community of Christ — or any of a number of breakoffs from the original church — would no longer be considered “Mormons,” except by people with an agenda to attack the LDS church by linking us with every group that ever broke off from us, for whatever reason.
Where'd you get that???? Are you an insider?
Again, this whole thing stinks to high heaven of unsubstantiated allegations, quite possibly fabricated, yet families are being destroyed. The first post on this thread is probably the best one.
“At least the State didn't burn them alive.”
what were they used for, then?
Bingo.
Mark my words. This is going to blow up in the faces of Texas prosecutors.
L
The lawyer for the man that was accused in the phone report to the police has said that the lack of evidence is going to be a huge problem for the Texas Rangers and the prosecutors. I’ve been saying that from the beginning, the anonymous tip with obviously false information was not enough to take action against the compound.
Both came before the Mosaic covenant. God addressed it then in Deut. 17:17 - "Neither shall he multiply wives to himself...."
Jesus Christ further addressed this in Matthew 5:32 - But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.
Again in Matthew 19:9 - And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.
Again in Mark 10:11 & 12; Luke 16:18. If Christ taught a divorcee who remarries commits adultery how much more so anyone who would marry again while still married (polygamy) would be committing adultery. Harsh words.
The NT further elaborates on this under the Apostles teaching that an Elder, Deacon, Bishop (LEADER) in the church must only have one wife: I Timothy 3:2 - bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, Again in I Timothy 3:12; Titus 1:6.
Finally Ephesians 5:31 - For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife [Singular], and they two [Not 3 or 12 or 22] shall be one flesh.
Polygamy is and always has been sin and an aberration, never condoned. Even IF you take the position God condones the practice He has left clear instructions it is NOT to be practiced by Leaders in the Church - i.e, like Joseph Smith or Brigham Young or any of the other myriads of leaders within the LDS who practiced this abomination.
How convenient! So now your prophets believe Smith was wrong and condemn him. Wow, I guess if he were alive he would be excommunicated too? Interesting, hadn’t heard that latest p.c. revelation.
If Smith were alive he’d be the leader of the cult churches which are following orthodox momonism.
So which is it? Are you for or against polygamy. Or were you for it before you were against it? Or vice versa?
How do you keep it straight?
The church excommunicated the perps, not the children. Of course the children were never introduced to the modern Mormon church, so they are not regarded as LDS either.
If you really want substantive answers to your questions, I suggest you contact the Mormon church yourself. If you are simply making implied statements camouflaged as questions, I'm not interested.
What accounts I have seen indicate the group was to some degree self-suficient i.e gardening, cheese making. Also I have heard some accounts of supplies coming in from Utah and elsewhere.
The county where this is located is rural and has a small population. It would not take many from this group showing up at the local welfare office to arouse suspicion. By all accounts they tried to avoid contact with the outside world, welfare fraud where they would have to deal with an inquiring state agency does not fit that template.
Well this is interesting....when was Joseph Smith excommunicated????? Brigham Young???? Taylor???? The list is endless........Specific dates please........
First, there are reports that some of those children don't know who their mothers are (or their birthdates either). That alone is child neglect/abuse.
How do you know it was a phony search warrant? That's a pretty serious accusation. Also, if I make an annonymous call to CPS, they have to investigate. If they see a 13 year old pregnant girl walk by, that is corroboration, to me!
Polygamists have been excommunicated since the church ended the practice in 1891, or thereabouts.
Those practicing polygamy when it was sanctions by the church were not excommunicated. Why would they be?
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