Is Islam Compatable With the Modern World? Obama Says Yes

Jawa Report ^ | April 14, 2008 02:44 PM | Dr. Rusty Shackleford

[Ernest_at_the_Beach]

Barack Obama seems to think so. Make sure to read Amy Proctor's comments as well. I think she gets some key points wrong, but they're worth the read.

Obama may be right, but I have serious reservations. It's something that Muslims are going to have to work out themselves.

Certainly I think that Islam will have a much harder time coming to terms with modernity than Western civilization did. And to think the transition was easy for us is to overlook several hundred years of bloodshed.

For Christians a move towards a more fundamentalist understanding of their roots was a move toward separation of church and state. For Muslims it is a move away from it.

It is this very basic problematic that makes equivocations between the two faiths so ill informed.

Nevertheless, I don't fault Obama for making the statement. Our politicians have to lie. It's called diplomacy.

Our political leaders have to say that Islam is peaceful and that Samuel Huntington's civilizational clash thesis is wrong. I expect them to say this. I want them to say this.

Because every time any one--let alone a political or religious leader--suggests otherwise, Muslims around the world erupt into violence, call for a return to the Dark Ages, and their governments promptly threaten a clash of civilizations if we don't take it back!

I only hope and pray that our leaders know they're not telling the truth. Because if they actually believe the garbage that routinely comes out of the mouths of both Republican and Democratic politicians, then we're screwed.

It's odd, too, that Obama uses his time in Indonesia [he was there under the successive secular dictatorships of Sukarno then Suharto] as a measure of how moderate & compatible with modern values Islam really is. For that matter it's not even fair to argue that since most Muslims just want the same things that you and I want--food, clothing, shelter, raising a family--that Islam itself isn't potentially dangerous.

Of course the vast majority of Muslims just want to raise their families, but so do the vast majority of communists, the vast majority of fascists, etc. It is not Islam as a religious movement that I object to, it is Islam as a political movement which is a problem.

An episode of Red Dwarf perfectly illustrates what Hannah Arendt termed the banality of evil when the crew went back in time to have dinner with the Hitlers. The Hitlers were described as throwing the most fabulous dinner parties.

I'll go to a ball game with a communist, hang out with them, compare notes on hot celebrity babes--and in fact, frequently do just this! I'm in academia, remember? A communist might be cool, but communism has been the source of more death, destruction, and oppression than any other political system of the 20th Century.

It's not how Muslims, as individuals, worship God that worries me. It's not how Muslims, as individuals, treat me that is a problem. It's what happens when Muslims, acting through the power of the state, tend to trample on the most basic tenets of religious and speech freedoms that I fear.

Islam will remain in the same category as fascism and communism as long as even 'moderate' & 'secular' Muslims demand legal penalties for criticizing Muhammad & leaving the faith.

[Ernest_at_the_Beach]

fyi

[garyhope]

Obambi just keeps getting better and better.

[El Gato]

Because every time any one--let alone a political or religious leader--suggests otherwise, Muslims around the world erupt into violence, call for a return to the Dark Ages, and their governments promptly threaten a clash of civilizations if we don't take it back!

A bunch of turd world Camel Humpers? Bring it on. Soon, before Achmadinjad gets nuclear weapons.

We'd still kick his scrawny a$$, but the butcher's bill would be much higher, on both sides.

[Fishrrman]

“Nevertheless, I don’t fault Obama for making the statement. Our politicians have to lie. It’s called diplomacy”

Ummm... one problem here:
Obama ain’t lying. He believes what he’s saying.

- John

[Cold Heat]

A close association between religion, any religion, and the State will always end in failure and bloodshed.

This is proved time and time again throughout history.

And so it goes.....

[eyedigress]

http://theimpudentobserver.com/world-news/swear-and-die-in-saudi-arabia/

They are sadistic animals

[llandres]

All this is true, true, true. MOST people, and sadly even our leaders, don’t have a clue about the guts of Islam and the Qu’ran. One of the previous posters said “It is not Islam as a religious movement that I object to, it is Islam as a political movement which is a problem.” Unlike any other major religion, there IS no separation of the religion and politics. In Islam the church IS the state. Saudi Arabia allows absolutely NO christian churches in their country. The ultimate goal of Islam is worldwide Sharia law. This is such a foreign idea for most Americans to grasp, but we’d all better wake up and stop judging everyone else by our own beliefs/behaviors. I’m not saying all Muslims are evil - they don’t all want to kill the “infidels”, but they all do believe that Islam and Sharia law should ultimately reign worldwide. And the (conservative numbers) 10% who DO want us dead figures out to be over 100 million. 9/11 only took 19. Wake up and learn, people. They laugh at our tolerance and political correctness as weakness. And as for Jimmy Carter going to meet with the terrorist Hamas, he should be ashamed and criminally charged.

[G8 Diplomat]

MOST people, and sadly even our leaders, don’t have a clue about the guts of Islam and the Qu’ran.

Most Muslims don't even have a clue about their Islam. TheReligionofPeace.com says that after interviewing hundreds of Muslims (including devout ones) they were convinced most of them had a very superficial understanding of their religion.

The Quraan is written in classical Arabic, which is very different from colloquial and further still from the dozens of dialects. It would be like us reading Old English (I don't mean Shakespearean "cometh thou hither" English, I mean Anglo-Saxon Old English). And then there are the Muslim countries where they don't even speak Arabic. The imams who preach the true hatred of Islam are "scholars" who study the Quraan and classical Arabic. I read a FrontPageMag article about a Bangladeshi Muslim who read the Quraan in classical Arabic every day, not having a clue what he was saying, but finally got a copy of it in his native language and was shocked to find out what it really said, and that convinced him to leave Islam. Muslims need to be shown the truth about Islam and given the opportunity to leave it. If they'd rather embrace terrorism, well, they can work it out with the US military.

[Ernest_at_the_Beach]

Sound like we need a massive education campaign....

[eyedigress]

If they'd rather embrace terrorism, well, they can work it out with the US military.

Throwing Hussein into the mix and him getting half the moon-bat vote is very disturbing. DUer's lurking, WAKE UP!

[G8 Diplomat]

Oh yeah.

We either need to sponsor classes in the Middle East in traditional Arabic or print mass copies of the Quraan in the dialects of Arabic, as well as in Farsi, Udru, Pashtun, Punjabi, Kurdish, Turkish, Bangladeshi, and any other language I missed.

[llandres]

Everyone should watch more cspan. Israeli Ambassador Sallai Meridor passionately spoke about the challenges facing Israel regarding terrorism, specifically the Iranian threat. This was part of the Anti-Defamation League’s Annual National Leadership Conference held at the Mayflower Hotel. It’s on again at approx. 4:19 am eastern time. Again, everyone must wake up and face the truth. The days of us living safely “over here” while the dangers are only “over there” are gone. Once again, I urge all to google Brigitte Gabriel and/or go to her website American Congress for Truth to learn.

[NormsRevenge]

I don't know which is scarier,
that he may actually believe what he says,
or that there are so many gullible voters that believe him.

[eyedigress]

The voters by far.

[SunkenCiv]

Thanks Ernest and george76.

Hey, Obama boys: Back off already!
salon | April 14, 2008 | Rebecca Traister
Posted on 04/14/2008 9:09:13 PM PDT by george76
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2001695/posts

What’s the Matter With Obama?
Slate | April 14, 2008 | Mickey Kaus
Posted on 04/14/2008 8:34:10 PM PDT by george76
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2001681/posts

[G8 Diplomat]

I just had an idea....y’know all that money the Saudis gave us for our universities? Maybe we SHOULD spend it on an Islamic studies department....courses dedicated to exposing the TRUTH about Islam and what the Quraan REALLY says. Their plan would backfire on them.

[BIGLOOK]

Of course the vast majority of Muslims just want to raise their families, but so do the vast majority of communists, the vast majority of fascists, etc. It is not Islam as a religious movement that I object to, it is Islam as a political movement which is a problem.

Ahhh.......a touching sentiment we attribute to all families. But then there's this.