Members of polygamist sect in Colorado City, Ariz.
(CBS/EARLY SHOW)
Posted on 04/13/2008 11:39:18 PM PDT by Paleo Conservative
(CBS) The raid on the polygamist compound in Eldorado, Texas has not only focused public attention on such sects, it's sparked many questions about them.
One such query: Who pays their bills?
A significant part of the answer, according to Early Show national correspondent Hattie Kauffman is -- taxpayers, in the form of welfare.
Kauffman and Laurie Allen, who escaped from polygamy, drove around one such community, in Colorado City, Ariz., and saw many mammoth homes built to accommodate multiple wives and children.
How the man of the house can afford to build such super-sized dwellings! The answer: He can't. He doesn't pay for them, you do.
As Allen explained to Kauffman, "What happens is a man marries one wife, she's his legal wife, then he marries ten other wives in the church, and all the other wives are, by law, single women, so they have all these children with him, and they all get welfare."
The more kids, the bigger the welfare check, Kauffman points out.
"Some of the women in this town have 26 babies," Allen told her.
And the women, Kauffman adds, have no choice. The fundamentalists believe a man needs three wives to get into heaven. And the wives exist for one reason: to make babies.
"On my wedding night, I was raped," another escapee from polygamy, Pam Black, said to Kauffman. She had 13 babies but, she says, "knew nothing about sexuality or intimacy, friendship."
It's been a long road to recovery, Kauffman says. Now free from the sect, Black is building a new life, with a new man who is able to show her tenderness.
"I just want people to know the most important thing is right here," said Gordie Soaring Hawk, tapping his chest, "a very tender, precious heart."
Black says she got away just in time. "They were trying to set me up so they could put the handcuffs on me, and take me away," she said tearfully, " ... because they don't want women here who think for themselves."
Though shunned by the town's residents, Black has refused to move away.
A stillborn daughter is buried in the religious sect's graveyard for babies.
"It's cruel here, what people do," Black remarked.
The religious group teaches that both laughter and tears come from evil spirits, Kauffman says.
"People's feelings are shut down and they can't feel," Black cried. "They just like, go around like a zombie."
"It's OK to feel, it's OK to cry," Kauffman reassured Black.
"Yes!" Black agreed. "I encourage everyone to feel to the fullest!"
"If your heart is filled with sorrow," Soaring Hawk advised, "then feel it to the depth. And then walk through it."
Black says women who can't control their feelings are beaten, and men who can't control their women lose them -- church leaders simply assign the wives and children to another man.
Members of polygamist sect in Colorado City, Ariz.
(CBS/EARLY SHOW)
So the whole thing is a big welfare scam, all the more reason
to arrest the leaders and close the cult down.
Here's a lovely question: You're engaging in what's considered immoral if not illegal behavior. You want to be left alone. So you get in your car and mosey on down to the local government office and ask for a monthly check?
I don't credit people with a lot of brains, but if these cults are doing that? Man, utter morons.
I think not only should they be charged on multple charges of rape and child rape, but they they should also be charged on multiple charges of welfare fraud. All sentences should be made to run consecutively rather than concurrently.
When I lived in St. George UT, we had occasion to pass Hilldale UT and Colorado City AZ. Most of the homes were four or six-plexes, all without siding or landscaping. We learned later that this was the method for escaping property taxes. Unfinished building (no Certificate of Completion) = No property taxes.
Lets see, is this the same SeeBS that after decades still hasn’t figured out who is footing the bill for illegal alien crimmigrants?
I’ll be the first to admit welfare payments supporting the poligamists is wrong. How many more decades before SeeBS admits that the taxpayer paying for illegal alien crimmigrants bills is wrong?
So the Muslims in this country have all forsaken polygamy and it never happens here?
The joys of coercive philanthropy, brought to you by our collectivist gov’t.
Yes, but according to the FLDS apologists on this board, you’re violating their 4th amendment rights by doing this, so just ignore all the child raping and law breaking “stuff”. Its all done under religious circumstances so its to be constitutionally protected. Plus some of the children have been temporarely seperated from their mothers, and we all know, thats much worse than being molested or raped.
I really don’t know. It’s an interesting question I suppose.
Are you aware that religion is coming under a lot of scrutiny in Europe and Canada? Are you aware that the U.N. consideres churches who speak out against homosexuality and abortion to be guilty of crimes against humanity?
There are some serious bonified reasons why folks on this forum want to make sure that the government crosses all the Ts and dots all the Is in all cases that involve religion, even if what is being described as taking place, is very repugnant.
None of us approve of or want kids or women to be abused by evil men. We do want the government to abide by the laws that are on the books. You should too.
If the charges in this case are true, then convictions shouldn’t be all that hard to prove. Due process will serve us well in this case, just like any other case.
Another reason to either ban welfare or require mandatory sterilization of people on welfare after the first child.
The oppression of the women in these cults reminds me of the mohammedans, although these one-dress-pattern-fits-all allows for different colors.
Hmmmm color-coded women? With matching children?
The answer: He can't. He doesn't pay for them, you do.
I think it is an outrage for radio evangelists to have such large mansions while little old lady's go hungry to send them money.
Ohhh this post is not about them........never mind.
Didn't anyone notice this as the funding source of the ghettos in every major city? Didn't anyone besides the police ever notice, for example, that on welfare check day, drug sales peak.
In re: multiple charges of rape and child rape
With the light of publicity, perhaps more of these women will come forward to make the accusation and press charges. Perhaps Child Welfare Bureaucrats will get off their butts and go look, since they have that right, as do the educational authorities. But these appear to be tight, well organized communities and since most of the women in these systems really are members of these "religions," cracking down on the communities is tough, because the few women and even fewer men that might come forward are constrained by peer pressure. Same goes for Muslims. We recognize one of the wives, he's got 4, and believe me a look at the welfare rolls in Lewiston-Auburn and surrounding areas will show he's collecting on the children ... many many children of three of them. We have even seen cases where the head of the housefold will divorce one or two wives according to Sharía, keep them under his roof, "marry" one or two more and still continue collecting on ALL of the children. Very common in Europe, by the way.
Law enforcement has had some limited success against the leaders of these cults, none against Muslims.
“...If 25 single women want to live with a man who is legally married to another woman, and bear his children, that’s their right...”
Except that children have no right to consent and are abused and, “groomed” to live this way. It is not a religion it’s a racket.
I recall back in the fifties when single women having multiple children by numerous fathers, then collecting both child support and all allied benefits from social services, plus court ordered child support payments from the various fathers.
I am not sure you could call it a scam, but the women made a decent income. I suppose it still goes on.
Yes. And just as our tax dollars go to support this lifestyle, they also go to support Child Welfare Departments.
That is why I suggest that the Child Welfare Bureaucrats and the Education Bureaucrats try and get pro-actively involved, if it's not too much trouble for them. Instead, they seem content to let the burden fall on Law Enforcement, which is legally constrained to act only when called.
That won't ever happen. If government actually cracked down on welfare fraud, then that would mean less "customers" for welfare programs, less spending on welfare, and fewer jobs for people who work for the agencies that disburse such funds.
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