Posted on 03/30/2008 5:25:35 PM PDT by thundrey
A Royal Marine who threw himself onto an exploding grenade to save the lives of his patrol has been put forward for the UK's highest military honour.
Lance Corporal Matt Croucher, 24, a reservist from Birmingham, survived because his rucksack and body armour took the force of the blast.
He was part of a reconnaissance troop in Helmand Province, Afghanistan, in February, when the incident happened.
The Ministry of Defence said he could be considered for the Victoria Cross.
(Excerpt) Read more at news.bbc.co.uk ...
What is more "most conspicuous bravery, or some daring or pre-eminent act of valour or self-sacrifice, or extreme devotion to duty in the presence of the enemy" than immediately jumping on a grenade and offering your own life to save your comrades? Not only does it fit the criteria, there is no other sacrifice higher. The fact that he survived thanks to his quick action in grabbing the body armor to place between himself and the grenade and the weak grenade itself, does not diminish the fact that he was fully willing to sacrifice himself, and carried out actions that he knew would lead to that act, in his duty to his country and fellow man. That it is a miracle that he survived does not lessen the intent.
Acting as if it is the only suitable award for heroic behaviour denigrates the achievements of those who have received other honours for their heroism.
How absurd! Acting as if awarding a person a VC for actions the should have led to his death as a sacrifice to save his comrades is not in any way making a claim the the VC should be awarded for "any heroic behavior." This is specific behavior -- behavior that should have led to his death, and not just any death, but specifically death to save his fellow comrades. That does not happen very often. You denigrate his actions by your ho-hum attitude towards it.
A little corner in your little world with Ayn and and yerself, is probably the best place for ya.
I’m not married and don’t have any children precisely because I love my freedom, I love my privacy,I don’t want to answer to a wife, I don’t want a live-in boss ( a wife) , and i want to spend my money and my time how I see fit.
How does my living my life how I want to and my thinking affect your life? In no way whatsoever.
I don’t know what made me freedom loving and an individualist but since it seems to bother so many then maybe you’d like to put me in a concentration camp for my individualistic and freedom loving beliefs.
Now, there’s a Brit with cojones. What great news that he survived. God bless him!
I don't know if I'd call it lucky for Democrat_media. If it were just the two of you and I was the only one able to supply help, I'll give you one guess as to which one I'd pick.
Exit this thread or you'll give your life on this forum.
> I don’t know what made me freedom loving and an individualist but since it seems to bother so many then maybe you’d like to put me in a concentration camp for my individualistic and freedom loving beliefs.
No Concentration Camp necessary. But if we are all misfortunate enough to be adrift at sea, you’re not getting into our lifeboat. You can jolly well swim.
What bravery!
You’re definitely confused.
You need to read the thread a little further, maybe?
I have a feeling that our media friend has loaded all his comments with a thick layer of sarcasm......
Oops. My mistake.
> I have a feeling that our media friend has loaded all his comments with a thick layer of sarcasm......
Must be of a particularly subtle kind. Check out subsequent posts, like #76.
> Oops. My mistake.
It would have been nice if he was being sarcastic, ay. That means he was actually in earnest, which is a scary thought.
I AM Pre-ZOT, you sleeper troll.
Yes, he took a great risk - an heroic risk - but it was a measured risk. Basically for a VC to be awarded for heroism, the action has to be such that the serviceman concerned can not reasonably expect to survive - and acted despite that fact.
Croucher had a reasonable expectation of survival. An expectation that Thank God, was borne out. But it means that his act does not constitute the for most conspicuous bravery, or some daring or pre-eminent act of valour or self-sacrifice that an award of the VC requires.
The Conspicuous Gallantry Cross (CGC) is awarded in recognition of an act or acts of conspicuous gallantry during active operations against the enemy.
It doesn't have the same requirement of believing your action is very likely to kill you.
I believe that is the appropriate award for his courage - and it is a heavy duty award.
Earlier in this war, there was a great deal of speculation in the press that a Regimental Sergeant Major of the SAS would be posthumously awarded the VC (which would have made it the first VC awarded in about twenty year) for his courage in Tora Bora. He was ultimately awarded the CGC for similar reasons to that described above.
The criteria for the award of the Victoria Cross are incredibly hard to meet. Deliberately so. Many, many great heroes, haven't earned them.
I'm the grandson of a Military Cross recipient, and the great grandson of a man awarded the Victoria Cross. I'm a retired officer of the Royal Australian Navy, who was, for a time, a military protocol expert. I am also the recipient of an Honour (though not one for bravery, which are on entirely another scale) in the gift of Her Majesty the Queen. I have something of an expertise when it comes to the criteria for the award of British Imperial Honours, and those of the Commonwealth of Nations.
I don't seek to denigrate anybody - Croucher is a hero, worthy of very high honour indeed.
But some people seem to be acting as if getting anything less than a VC is somehow shameful.
Erm, bad phrasing. I meant buy their stock - as in BUY ALL THEIR INVENTORY. (grin)
No disrespect to the MOH holders via this type of sacrifice: Approx 3463 have been awarded since its inception. Of these, 846 can be considered in the calculation for that sacrifice. Reviewing the first 124 awards alphabetically from WWll, there were 6 men awarded the MOH for this act, of which one survived. If the same % held for the rest of the eligible cases, that would make about 45 awards for that act or about 1% of the total.
The history of the medal is very interesting. 7 have been awarded by acts of Congress honoring 4 foreign unknowns and 3 for the unknowns in Arlington. Now that the VN unknown has been identified, I wonder if his family receives the medal.
The acts worthy of the award are varied, and this one is interesting in the citation:
ANTRIM, RICHARD NOTT
Rank and organization: Commander, U.S. Navy. Place and date: Makassar, Celebes, Netherlands East Indies, April 1942. Entered service at: Indiana. Born: 17 December 1907, Peru, Ind. Citation: For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty while interned as a prisoner of war of the enemy Japanese in the city of Makassar, Celebes, Netherlands East Indies, in April 1942. Acting instantly on behalf of a naval officer who was subjected to a vicious clubbing by a frenzied Japanese guard venting his insane wrath upon the helpless prisoner, Comdr. (then Lt.) Antrim boldly intervened, attempting to quiet the guard and finally persuading him to discuss the charges against the officer. With the entire Japanese force assembled and making extraordinary preparations for the threatened beating, and with the tension heightened by 2,700 Allied prisoners rapidly closing in, Comdr. Antrim courageously appealed to the fanatic enemy, risking his own life in a desperate effort to mitigate the punishment. When the other had been beaten unconscious by 15 blows of a hawser and was repeatedly kicked by 3 soldiers to a point beyond which he could not survive, Comdr. Antrim gallantly stepped forward and indicated to the perplexed guards that he would take the remainder of the punishment, throwing the Japanese completely off balance in their amazement and eliciting a roar of acclaim from the suddenly inspired Allied prisoners. By his fearless leadership and valiant concern for the welfare of another, he not only saved the life of a fellow officer and stunned the Japanese into sparing his own life but also brought about a new respect for American officers and men and a great improvement in camp living conditions. His heroic conduct throughout reflects the highest credit upon Comdr. Antrim and the U.S. Naval Service.
http://www.history.army.mil/moh.html
Guess you're not a vet then.
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