Posted on 03/27/2008 4:40:22 PM PDT by Berlin_Freeper
Democratic presidential contender Barack Obama suggested Wednesday that Jesus Christ is not the only way to heaven during a campaign event in North Carolina.
While answering a question about his Christian faith, Obama said he believes that Jesus Christ died for his sins and through God’s grace and mercy he could have “everlasting life,” according to the Los Angeles Times.
But he also believes Jews and Muslims and non-believers who live moral lives are as much “children of God” as he is, according to The Associated Press.
As an example, he spoke about his late mother who was “not a believer.”
"[S]he was the kindest, most decent, generous person that I have ever known," Obama said, according to the Times. "I'm sure she is in heaven, even though she may not have subscribed to everything that I subscribe to."
Obama’s response amid the recent controversy surrounding his former Chicago pastor, the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, who made inflammatory remarks about race and America in sermons he delivered many years ago.
The Illinois senator, who has made religion a cornerstone of his campaign, has denounced the comments – which included “God damn America” for its racism – but refuses to distance himself from the pastor, whom he compares to an uncle.
During his response on Wednesday, Obama praised his church, Trinity United Church of Christ, especially its choir, and said it was very warm and welcoming and is like any other church in America in that it exists to praise God.
(Excerpt) Read more at christianpost.com ...
Thank you.
Actually Peter tells us IPeter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the Just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh,
but quickened by the Spirit: (transfigured body)
19 By which also He went and preached unto the spirits in prison.
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
IPeter 4:6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
You will never, ever, ever be taken seriously with a tagline like that.
I think there are many people on the Left who are trying their hardest to tear people away from Christ because they think that will help their Leftist political causes.
Didn't the famous atheist Jane Fonds in recent years claim to be a “feminist Christian” or something like that?
I view Leftist “Christians” who claim you don't really need Christ as hostile to Christianity and their bogus believe is costing them nothing in their own mind, in fact they gain as they actually turn others away from Christ or change his message to fit their political goals.
Romans 2:12 states that those without the law are judged outside the law. I think this makes a good case for my earlier statement.
There’s a really good discussion at the link below on the issue of what happens to those who never have an opportunity to hear the gospel at all.
http://www.kencollins.com/question-26.htm
MM
Scripturally speaking, this is addressed by Peter:
1 Peter 1
10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
Theologically speaking, there is a way to look at children going to Heaven, as addressed by King David. Through the writings of David, it is believe he was saved (2 Samuel 22:2-3) and that when he died, he went to heaven (Psalms 23:6).
When David speaks of the death of his infant son, he speaks of going to him, but his son not returning to him (2 Samuel 12:23).
The first one is the why question of being born again. The how is answered here:
Mark 10:17-31 17 Now as He was going out on the road, one came running, knelt before Him, and asked Him, "Good Teacher, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?" 18 So Jesus said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. 19 You know the commandments: 'Do not commit adultery,' 'Do not murder,' 'Do not steal,' 'Do not bear false witness,' 'Do not defraud,' 'Honor your father and your mother.' " F46 20 And he answered and said to Him, "Teacher, all these things I have kept from my youth." 21 Then Jesus, looking at him, loved him, and said to him, "One thing you lack: Go your way, sell whatever you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, take up the cross, and follow Me."
Being born again is the first step of repentance -- shunning evils as sins. Which evils? Those set forth in the Ten Commandments. As I stated, all religions follow the Ten Commandments and indeed the commandments extend outside religion to civil law. Christian Conservatives fight to keep the Ten Commandments in the town square today.
As I said, being born again is a process. It does have a first iteration when a person decides to freely shun evil when he otherwise would not and then proceeds into the repentance process I described earlier. Note that this is not unique to Christianity.
If you have lived your life well, you have gone through the process of regeneration.
The next verse adds more context to the 2nd quote:
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
We are to confess our sins individually as the Catholics do, not wholesale like the reformed. I won't get into the whole forgiveness thing because we don't believe in 'original sin'. We believe in hereditary sin which is passed from parent to child, grandparent to parent, throughout the ancestors which are treated differently than sins of our own making.
Therefore, we do not believe in vicarious atonement.
Say what?!?!
Lying is forbidden by the Ten Commandments. By lying, you are not shunning evil as sin. The Lord repeated over and over in the NT to have eternal life, you MUST keep the commandments. Paying lip service to Jesus Christ does NOT offer salvation!
I really think you should look closely at your own spiritual journey and stop condemning others to hell. You, yourself may be the goner.
THANK YOU!!I am thinking this guy is NUTS!
this guy is off his rocker!
According to John 3, being born again is a one time event accomplished by The Holy Spirit, e.g. spiritual regeneration. Paul in Romans indicated we are "raised to walk in newness of life". Being born again is a singualr event that occurs when one repents and trusts in Jesus to forgive and save them based on his sacraficial death. John, Chapter 1 states:
12. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13. Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Being born again is of God, not of us!
Your quote of Mark 10 left out the rest of the story, when the disciples exclaimed, based on Jesus' impossible requirements:
26. And they were astonished out of measure, saying among themselves, Who then can be saved? 27And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.
So again, the salvation event is of God alone, not based on our works!!!
As I stated, all religions follow the Ten Commandments
Really? Many religions (some Christian) pray to idols, and few observe the Sabbath (including most Christians), and most don't acknowledge the YHWH of the Bible as the one, true God. Hindus, for example, believe in a multiplicity of God;s.
Proof, in context, please.
Rather Jesus, (and Paul, John, Peter, etc) taught that man CANNOT keep the commandments! Read Mark 10, John 3, Romans 3, etc.! Paul explicitly stated in Romans 3:10
because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.
TRUTH!!
We're not in disagreement, I believe.
For years, I wrestled with the theological implications of what other people, including the various authors of biblical scripture, have said. And I kept crashing into brick walls where various concepts collide.
I finally resolved it to my own personal satisfaction by deciding that I was over-analyzing it.
First of all, I came to the conclusion that it wasn't that important that I decide the issue. God will do so. And secondly, I decided that He will judge people not based on their faith, per se, but on their character. If a person gets some "doctrinal" matter wrong, well, it's pretty much an irrelevant detail to whether or not you're a good person.
I think whether or not you're a Christian, or even had the opportunity to become one, is unimportant.
I hang my hat on this:
Matthew 7:12That transcends religions and any particular knowledge or belief in any matter of doctrine. It means that an ancient Mayan who never heard of Jesus or had no grasp of the plan of salvation could still be judged as worthy, if he or she was a good person and followed that principle."So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets."
I could be wrong. But I'm not the one who decides. It works for me.
It's fine with me if you believe that being born again is a one time event. Do you also believe that once saved, always saved? For our entire time on earth, evil is always around us and we must WORK to avoid it. Temptation is very real.
The story in Mark 10 means that with men ALONE it is impossible and with God (with men), all things are possible. This goes to the heart of our beliefs that if we cooperate with the Lord, we can accomplish anything.
My understanding of the Hindu religion is that each of the deities offer a different path to the ultimate One (which I understand as Jesus Christ).
Just search 'commandments' in the New Testament on crosswalk.com
The one that some of these good Christians on FR seem to forget is 'Love the neighbor'. They don't even try. Sad.
At least you can still write nasty things to people in white text and freepmail your buddies to click and drag and check it out and laugh behind your opponents back. Not that I would ever do that.
You suck.
8. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9. Not of works, lest any man should boast.
The whole point is that we are sinful, and cannot be good enough. Only through Jesus is a man saved. Our righteousness is but filthy rags, and meaningless in His sight concerning salvation.
Now, how then should I live? Love God and love my neighbor. But I do this to please my Father, because of what he has done for me, not so that he will do it.
BTW, how good must I be to be saved? How many times can I break a commandement? Why did Jesus die, anyway?
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