Posted on 03/27/2008 12:32:05 PM PDT by jmcenanly
ANAESTHETIC drugs could be used to numb a different sort of pain: flushing out harrowing memories before they take hold and post-traumatic stress disorder develops.
Michael Alkire and Larry Cahill at the University of California in Irvine have discovered that anaesthetics can block the formation of memories associated with emotive images. "One popular misconception about anaesthesia is that unconsciousness occurs immediately," says Alkire. In fact, low doses of anaesthetic can leave patients conscious but impede memory, he says.
(Excerpt) Read more at newscientist.com ...
duh. It’s called liquor.
I think we should all have some to carry around with us, just in case....
>> duh. It’s called liquor.
Rather “bottle in front of me” than “frontal lobotomy”.
“flushing out harrowing memories...”
One tablet and one can say...what’s a Clinton Administration?
I think I’ll need some of this stuff after the first four-year term of whomever is elected President in November.
Probably will need another dose in 2012.
Kennedys tried it both ways.
Neither worked.
This entire train of ‘research’ is just so incredibly, mind-numbingly stupid.
Scientists don’t know where actual thoughts or memories are stored or how they are recorded. (that is a fact. no scientist in the world could credibly state that there is an answer to this question).
But, despite not understanding how memories are stored, somebody thinks that they can wipe out certain ones?
This is a case of ‘effect’ and presumed ‘cause’. If I put an icepick in the front of your skull, you will forgot many, many things in your memory but I am not stupid enough to believe that I’m successfully ‘wiped out’ any specific memories. I’ve just scrambled enough of your brain that you either can’t find the memories or your brain is damaged enough so that you can’t get to them.
Anybody who believes they have a soul likely believes that they will remember all the things which happened to them during this lifetime after they die. If this is the case, no drug you take will wipe out your memories. Either your memories stay with YOU or they are just chemicals locked in your brain. You can decide which you believe in more.
Pink Floyd’s “Comfortably Numb.”
The Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind
The Israelis are now treating PTSD by having soldiers smoke marijuana. However, it is important to note that PTSD is not entirely psychological—it can often be very closely related to physical trauma as well.
That is why they used to call it “shell shock”. Artillery rounds exploding nearby would give soldiers physical damage such as ruptured surface capillaries causing bruising, mild or even moderate concussion, even jarring internal organs. This could be disguised by treating it as a purely psychological problem.
If you’ve ever seen anyone on Versed, you would understand that some chemicals really do block the formation of memories.
Two things: 1. We don’t know whether memories are being prevented from being formed or whether the process for recalling the memories are just being disrupted and the memories are actually still there. 2. Even amnesia patients are often found to recall things they had ‘forgotten’ after whatever trauma wore off that caused the initial condition.
Here is a more interesting question for you. Many people believe that they will see their loved ones again when they die. If they took one of these drugs which block memories, would they be unable to recognize their loved ones if they met them again? Or are these people just plain nuts for thinking that they will ‘remember’ anything after they die?
A fun question to play on psych students is to ask them to think of a cat. Then make the cat blue. Then think of the cat having very long ears. Now have the cat stand up on its hind legs. Then ask the student: Where are you keeping the picture of the cat you just created? (typical answers are: my brain, neurons, my mind, etc).
It is easy to keep memories from being created. A good bonk on the head will prevent memories from being formed for awhile. Alzheimer’s will keep memories from being formed.
Once memories are formed, there is no known way to remove them. Those are two completely different issues.
We don’t know how memory is made but there is a relatively clear transition from immediate, short term then long term memory. Each type of memory can be affected by different circumstances. The point of the article is that they think there are more levels of memory than previously described.
RYAN ORR Staff Writer
March 27, 2008 - 8:21AM
APPLE VALLEY — There is an explosion in the turret. Eighteen Marines are pulled out by a 19-year-old Navy medic. Nine are dead, the other nine, screaming in pain, die in his care. Then, Lester Lindsey Morton wakes up.
It is a recurring nightmare that Morton remembers like it was yesterday. It is the reality he witnessed some 64 years ago, while serving on the World War II Cruiser, USS Nashville CL43, as it bombed the Kula Gulf in the Solomon Islands.
http://www.vvdailypress.com/news/past_5594___article.html/struggles_valley.html
actually, from a clinical standpoint we’ve delineated short term and long term memories because of a few different conditions which appear to treat them differently (like dementia) but we don’t ‘actually’ know what the delineation is or whether there really is one.
It’s like the subject or SSRIs and whether or not we actually ‘know’ why they appear to ‘work’ and why some people just turn violent. We don’t actually know what specifically happens and whether its a ‘cure’ or just a means of disrupting chemical processes enough that we mask the original symptoms and create a new set of symptoms.
We really don’t understand the inner workings of the Earth either but here we stand.
It’s really not useful to say we don’t know exactly how something works so we have to ignore what we can see. You can naval gaze and ponder the meaning all you want but if I don’t want you to remember having a tooth extracted I can give you a couple of milligrams of Versed. You will talk to me and tell me if you are having pain, you can even tell me about the first time you were kissed but an hour later you will think you slept through the whole thing.
Immediate, short and long memory are easy to differentiate and measure. They even make biological and functional sense. A lesion to a specific portion of the brain can affect one and leave the others intact. The allow the brain to hold large amounts of information for a brief time allowing us to respond to a spouses question when we weren’t actually listening. A smaller amount of information for a few seconds that we won’t need for long such as a phone number. And finally a very large amount of information that we need to carry around with us to survive that has to be loaded over time.
If there is in fact a fourth emotional memory that takes time to develop, it would open treatment options.
I left long philisophical discussions behind with my youth. If you have a better model, spit it out. If you want a metaphysical discussion, you are about twenty years too late. My beard is turning gray and my feet hurt.
The degree of amnesia with versed depends on the dose. I had an outpatient biopsy with it, and got a light dose, and no amnesia.
All meds depend on dose and physiology.
I had a hernia repair with only a local anesthetic and Versed. The surgeon told me later that I had quite a bit of pain during the surgery and complained alot. All I remember is saying goodnight to the anethesiologist and waking up afterward feeling pretty good. I got up walked down to my department told everyone that I did OK and went home. It sure beat puking for an hour coming out of a general.
I remember a crazy old attending surgeon with a foul mouth. He loved to walk into surgical suites and yell at the residents about what a lousy job they were doing and how the patient would be mutilated for life. When he walked onto the floor a nurse would alert us over the intercom and every anesthesiologist would start pushing Versed.
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