Build the Border Fence as Promised!(Petition)

Grassfire.org ^ | March 25, 2008 | Steve Elliot

[Man50D]

Click here to sign

In a backroom deal just prior to the Christmas break, Congress passed the omnibus Appropriations bill which included the Hutchison Amendment that gutted the Secure Fence Act. Her amendment essentially guaranteed that the DHS didn't have to build the fence! For more click here.

After Grassfire broke the "Secure Fence Hoax", key members of Congress took action in an effort to "undo" what the Hutchison amendment did, by restoring deadlines and double fence mandate for the entire 854 miles of border.

Two bills have already been introduced that Grassfire is supporting. Each of these bills demand Congress make good on their original promise to build the border fence:

H.R. 4987-Fence By Date Certain Act (Jones R-NC)

H.R. 5124-Reinstatement of the Secure Fence Act of 2008 (Hunter R-CA)

[Jean S]

I don’t know anything about this site and I too will take Jim’s word that they are legitimate and on our side of the issues.

Having said that, I gave the same information this site is requesting for a petition to Judicial Watch for one of their petitions years ago and cannot get off of their snailmail list, even after numerous requests.

[Bob J]

Having helped run the Free Republic Network for five years and operating Rightalk.com for as long, I have come in contact and worked with dozens and dozens of organizations. I can tell you in the first five minutes I can usually size them up pretty good and tell whether they’re into the fighting the good fight or working their budget.

The good ones say “what can I do” and the bad ones say “what’s in it for me”.

Jim is a great man but sometimes he is far too trusting right off the bat.

No offense Jim.

[Bob J]

BTW - I’ve often thought of teamng up with an org like Capital Research Center (one of the good ones) and build a website than rates conservative orgs on their effectiveness vis a vis their income.

Where does the money come from, where does it go, how productive are they with the largesse they derive from the conservative community.

At the minimum it may help weed out the posers and help drive income to those that “get up and go”.

[Man50D]

Do with it what you want but to suggest Grassfire has some nefarious goal in mind with the information is an exaggeration and clearly shows you know little about the organization. They gather information to email people on other topics of interest to conservatives.

If you bothered to look at the bottom of the petition those conservative topics include: pro life, reciting the pledge of allegiance in schools, I want our second amendment right to bear arms defended and I support reforming the tax code and eliminating the IRS. I fail to see how supporting such issues is some how devious and harmful to you or anyone.

Obviously you are free not to sign the petition but keep in mind the more people who do not sign the petition makes it that much more likely Congress will fail to heed the pressure from their constituents and therefore pass legislation to build the fence.

[MinuteGal]

Let me confine myself to the subject of petitions. I was in public elective office for 20 years. Petitions for or against some proposed legislation were received by a bureaucratic secretary, the manilla envelopes containing the signatures were date stamped, then they were consigned to a black hole somewhere in the government building never to be looked at or seen again.

Petitions may influence some politicians on the local level, but the influence has little effect at the county, state and federal levels of government.

Internet petitions are completely useless. They're simply a tool to build mailing lists for members and contributors as Bob J said. This has nothing to do with whether any particular organization is worthy or worthless. It's just a fact of political/merchandising life that petitions are used for purposes in addition to what they appear to be promoting.

Folks are free to sign or not to sign, but they should be aware of the motivations that spark internet petitions. No harm done if anyone really want to sign with both name and address, just don't think it's going to influence high-level legislation in any way....and don't be surprised when you find yourself on mailing lists you have no interest in being on.

Leni

[Bob J]

“They gather information to email people on other topics of interest to conservatives.”

Then why do they ask for a street address? An email address would do.

[Man50D]

Then why do they ask for a street address? An email address would do.

Yes Bob J it's all one big conspiracy to seek out and destroy you! Thank you for saving us from a conservative group trying to stop the flow of illegal aliens by holding politicians accountable. A fact obviously lost on you.

[Bob J]

I object to any organization that uses a fake petition to cull addresses for not only a spam list but potentially to sell to other spammers.

If grassfire’s work is so good, why don’t they just explain this and ask people to join and pay a membership fee, or just ask for a donation?

The petition is a ruse and it shows grassfire has no respect for the people from which they desire support. It also shows they think they are dumb.

How much do you know about grassfire, their fundraising techniques, and the people/organizations they are in business with?

[Bob J]

I mentioned above I didn’t know much about grassfire, although I’m looking up their 990’s now. BTW - It was Steve Elliott, not Steve Green who runs the org.

[Bob J]

Well, I’ve been over the 990’s and they ain’t pretty. Sure you want to know?

[Bob J]

From 2006. 2007 hasn't been filed yet...numbers are rounded.

Income - 612,000

Grants (?) - 6500 (1.1%)
Salaries - wages, employment costs - 206,000 (33.7%)
Office Exp, Legal, Acct, travel, misc - 58,000 (9.5%)
Printing - 153,000 (25%)
Fundraising - Expenses, caging fees, mgmt., cc processing - 147,000 (24%)
Radio - 26,000 (4.2%)
Polling - 5300 (.9)

So $401,000 or 67.3% of income was spent on salaries, office and fundraising expenses.

NOTE - “Printing” can mean a lot of things under program services, but my experience that many orgs print up and mail out cleverly designed fundraising pitches disguised “Informational” publications and hidden under their “Program Services” account.

A better explanation for some of these expenses from Grassfire could be clarifying. I am not an accountant and organized the expenses on their 990 under what I thought were similar categories to provide a more brief summary.

[Bob J]

ping

[Bob J]

BTW - I may be mistaken but I believe grassfire is hooked up with the same “fundraising” companies that handle Alan Keyes and so disasterously got The Minutemen in trouble last year.

[tgslTakoma]

NOTE - “Printing” can mean a lot of things under program services, but my experience that many orgs print up and mail out cleverly designed fundraising pitches disguised “Informational” publications and hidden under their “Program Services” account.

A couple of years ago, the head of Grassfire (IIRC his name was Steve, maybe Kristinn can recall) came to one of our "Support the Troops" rallies in DC, and he gave the DC Chapter (no strings attached, no cost, no donation requests, no collection of email addresses, etc.) approximately 2,000 (two thousand) 26" x 16" printed vinyl "Support Our Troops" yard signs. His only request was that we give them to everybody who wanted one; which we did.

After that rally, we still had a few hundred left over, and in the time since that rally, I have given them to many people who have attended other DC Chapter events. I still have a few left, as do the trooprallys; and we are using them at our WRAMC, Olney,MD, Westminster, MD and other Freeps.

So, "printing costs" can also mean the cost of printing such yard signs, which the Grassfire guy generously donated to the troop-supporting public, through us - thanks to their own generous donors.

In my opinion, Grassfire is an A-OK conservative organization, actively working towards goals which I think are honorable.

Here's one of those signs that Grassfire gave us, a little worse for wear after the SDS attack on March 19th, but still proudly in use.

[Bob J]

At many rallies we had in LA when I lived there, I bought and handed out several thousand American flags to people taking part in our demonstrations.

However, I didn’t print my name and phone number on them.

[Bob J]

“In my opinion, Grassfire is an A-OK conservative organization...”

BTW - I never said they were or weren’t AOK conservative organization, but I do wonder when one spends such a considerable amount of their revenue on salaries, office expenses, and fundraising.

I wonder how those people who donated would feel knowing around 70% of their “donations” went to overhead and lining the pockets of professional fundraising companies.

[jmc813]

This thread’s about to get fun.

[Bob J]

FWIW - After perusing the Grassfire website, they do appear to get more accomplished than many “non-profits” who do almost nothing except put out emails, press releases and requests for cash.

So again I’ll state, not being intimately familiar with their operation or how they go about business, it’s hard to tell...but the 990’s do speak for themselves regarding where there income is distributed.

[Jim Robinson]

grassfire.org is ok. Give it a rest.

[Bob J]

From past experience, I expect to get a cease and desist letter from an attorney in DC any hour now.