Posted on 03/08/2008 1:58:59 PM PST by neverdem
I speak, read and write English better than 95% of the people in this country, but here goes:
I don't care what SCOTUS decides. I can read what the Founders of this great nation wrote, and enshrined in the BOR. So be advised, I am armed, trained and have the will and means to move forward no matter what the decision.
Done deal.
5.56mm
Thanks for the ping!
Well put.
Stay safe.
However, talk is cheap. I would have thought that most of them good ol boys down in the area of the Big Easy aka New Orleans would have let the lead fly over that atrocity against the BOR after Hurricane Katrina. Yet they didn't. Why? It's easy to lay your own skin on the line, especially if you live alone and are childless. But when they (whomever "they" might be) come for your guns it won't be at high noon with a lot of pomp and circumstance. It'll be a "no-knock" raid at 0300 HRS and they'll come in hard. Are you willing to sacrifice your wife and kids in the massacre sure to occur once you open fire? If you reply YES at once, you're lying and you haven't thought it thru.
It's really easy for folks like us to declare that When they finally DO get my guns they're going to be WARMER than me! In the next instant I have this image of the rest of my innocent family lying bullet riddled in pools of their own blood and I'm having all too natural second thoughts. So I can honestly say that until I'm faced with the exact moment in time, I don't really know what I'll do. However I do know what I'll be prepared to do. Uncertain outcomes do not negate complete preparations! As my students love to say: You feel me, dude?
Tribe is, unfortunately, rapidly backpedalling now - apparently not with any cogent explanation repudiating his prior position, but simply regurgiating the naieve collective view (veiled with an obligatory “oh, but it’s INDIVIDUAL”). Hints are his favorite law student - a certain B.H. Obama - may be seeking to return certain favors, involving a re-positioning on Heller.
I just like to say to them: “ I’m willing to die to protect the second amendment: are you willing to die trying to take it away from me?
Know what kind of response that practically guarantees? You say that kind of thing to a soldier and you're going to provoke a challenge you almost certainly can't win. You cannot stand against a "full on" military assault. Not even for a little while and they know it. Any combat veteran knows the power that can be brought to bear in a committed attack and they also know that the odds of one of them being seriously injured during the course of said action is extremely remote. So sure, say that and promptly sign your will. It's that simple.
The BEST that we can pray for in the case of an outright subversion of the Constitution (say in the case of a merger between USA, Canada & Mexico (the so called North American Union) is that certain factions inside the military and police will rebel, and take their skills and equipment with them to join in a revolution. That would take some time. In the short run, individuals will be sacrificed as examples so as to frighten the general public into submitting to global authority. Will it work? Sure it will. But you and YOURS will serve first as that bloody example. Maybe. I pray not.
Ah, but ... who is “Big Mack”?
Oh, we know the power that can be brought to bear on ... who? where?
Even if identified, is the collateral damage tolerable? We’re not talking strangers in a strange land, we’re talking your neighbors harmed for a political agenda. Razing a neighborhood to get a “FMCDH” type will stop awfully quick once the votes & tax money sources get outraged.
Oh, sure, the occupants of Waco and Ruby Ridge didn’t stand a chance. Most of ‘em didn’t make it; many who did regret it.
Yet ... that kind of overwhelming force was never applied again for another 15 years until NOLA/Katrina - and that came to a screeching halt when those who remembered reminded those who didn’t.
Is he one of, say, 18,000,000 deer hunters with, er, suitable equipment? Need I say more?
How about those not vocal enough to post publicly?
Are you familiar with the terms...
“Phyrric victory”?
“Unintended Consequences”?
“Feed the hogs”?
“S^3”?
Such raids won't occur in a vacuum. A law will have to be passed first, then be on hold a bit while challenged in court with a restraining order. Even without the court thing, you and the rest of us will have warning.
Knowing some of the people on this thread, the SWAT teams will find empty homes, or homes emptied of guns with genuine looking bill of sale for all firearms known by the BATF to be owned by those in the house. Oh, and those who order the SWAT into action will also probably have trouble sleeping, knowing that they and their families are also at risk.
During Katrina the folks who performed most of the seizures weren't the local cops although they did too. I'm ashamed to say I have a few distant kinfolk among that group. But the ones who busted in doors and body slammed 85 year old grannies in front of a CNN camera crew (I saw this video) were brought in from out of state to assist. They were guardsment from Illinois and California. Both states where strict gun control already exists and for them the mission seemed reasonable and logical. Many said they felt like they were on patrol in Iraq but realizing it was their own country made them "uncomfortable." But they still did as they were ordered. Votes and tax money will have zero impact when the orders are from a national source or high state source backed by national authority and when the soldiers are also from out of state.
Only under times when normal political conditions exist. Not in the case of a national catastrophic disaster. Think multiple terrorist WMD attacks on major US cities. For that not so happy instance the groundwork has already been laid and the long string of Executive Orders have been in place since the 1980s; authored oddly enough, by LTC Oliver North. I'm sure he could not foresee the eventual use to which his plans may be put. Do a Google for REX84 and read the area on Executive Orders in case of such an emergency. Another, harder to find document that seems to have been purged from the net somehow is a FR document titled FEMA: THE DARK UNDERBELLY which will scare the willies out of you. It's fact, too. The REX84 document is full of hysterical ramblings but there are more than a few grains of truth there, too. But the DARK UNDERBELLY is just full of facts, which is why "somebody" may have been dedicated enough to purge it from active circulation.
I once asked my aging Father in Law, holder of the Navy Cross from WWII about the possibility of caching our guns from such a governmental intrusion. He said to me: Son, the time comes that you have to bury your guns to protect them is the exact time you'll be needing to dig them up for use! That made a lot of sense to me. Still does. I might place them will nilly around the country side for future uses but as far as a long term cache? Naaaaah.
Of note, that incident stopped pretty quickly, and was responded to by many states promptly passing laws prohibiting such behavior. It also occurred in an area where such behavior was more likely accepted by residents.
Once news started spreading widely, the confiscations stopped fast.
Again, remember that it was an extremely localized area where it happened. In the case I posited where those EO's are tripped, there is no basis for any Congressional oversight for a minimum of six months and the entire Bill of Rights and other Constitutional guarantees as well as ALL applicable state laws will be suspended and it's perfectly legal. Once an EO is published in the Federal Register Congress or the USSC has just 90 days to register a protest or the EO becomes the law of the land. This fact once prompted a staffer of fmr Pres. Bill Clinton to remark in public: Stroke of the pen, law of the land. Pretty kewl.
Even though the effects of Katrina spanned several states, it was still tightly localized and the worst hit by far was N.O., where of course the most severe abuses by government happened. The bigger the disaster and the wider the disaster zone, the likelier there will be local as well as state sanctioned abuses in the name of public safety, which seems to be justification enough for all sorts of atrocities for which nobody is ever held acutely accountable. Remember, once rights are suspended, they very rarely reappear without some form of physical action as a guarantee. How many sheeple you reckon are gonna even stand up to back what the Sheepdogs must do THEN in order to save the Republic?
I refer you back to #49.
Nope....they will ban booze. Only this time, they won't see the necessity of amending the Constitution.
Reserves, man, reserves. If, theoretically speaking (of course), someone had guns that the gov't didn't know he/she had, then when they were forced to give up what they were known to possess, they wouldn't be naked to the world (at least not for more than a few hours or days).
This lesson is derived from the Russians in WW2 - have so much secreted away that the enemy doesn't know about that when it captures/destroys everything it thinks you have, you surprise them by having yet more. This is the only prudent course, IMHO, for ALL concerned with this issue.
Or it may well have been aware of his words and simply found them to be of no use. Raoul Berger's excellent book, "Government by Judiciary," takes a lengthy look at the incorporation doctrine and dismisses Bingham as "utterly at sea as to the role of the Bill of Rights." Berger addresses your point in particular, noting that it would have been incredible for the bench and the bar to have been unaware of the recent passage of the 14th Amendment, which would have purported to adopt a wholesale and landmark change upon the structure of Our Federalism.
http://oll.libertyfund.org/index.php?option=com_staticxt&staticfile=show.php%3Ftitle=675&layout=html#chapter_106927
Whoa! If you think either Ruby Ridge or Waco was an example of overwhelming force application you're dead wrong! Those were prime examples of typical government restraint and administrative SNAFUs!
Overwhelming military force is when they prep their "no-knock" raid with mortars or they show up at your fence line with tanks and keep coming until they've been thru your home and out the other fence with armor. As I said, you can't hold off a force like that for even a little while.
Is he one of, say, 18,000,000 deer hunters with, er, suitable equipment? Need I say more?
You need to say a lot more. Those 18,000,000 deer hunters are going to roll over and show their bellies while whimpering (bleating?) P-P-PLEASE don't hurt me or my family! And then they are not only going to turn over their rifles they'll turn IN all their friends and neighbors. How do I know? I've been watching this agenda take root in the public schools for 25 years and have been actively fighting it for 18 in those same schools.
Yes, I'm quite familiar with all of those terms. Familiar enough to know that they no longer apply to the US population today or for the near future unless there is some dramatic educational reform which looks like AIN'T gonna happen, at least from this teacher's viewpoint. I teach in the 4th largest school district in the nation, so we are definitely a bell weather for the rest of the country.
How can you possibly overlook that the Civil War had unquestionably provided an impetus for post Civil War lawmakers to make systemic changes to the law of the land as evidenced by the 13th, 14th and 15th Amendments to the federal Constitution?
Also, regarding who should have known what with respect to the scope of the federal Constitution in the late 18th and 19th centuries, beware of falling into the trap of presentism, of thinking that the pioneering generations had the convenience of cell telephones and networked archives to keep themselves abreast of USSC opinions, etc..
Again, the Congressional Globe indicates that some federal lawmakers at the time of the ratification of the 14th A. evidently weren't aware that Chief Justice Marshall had noted in Barron v. Baltimore, 1833, that the federal Constitution, the federal BoR in particular, did not apply to the states unless explicitly stated.
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